Thanks for all the writing. Have a couple questions for you re: trenches.
Are you more worried about OL or DL?
I am terrified of interior DL depth. Can you make me less worried?
If we don’t get Solomon, what is the next best option at NT?
I am terrified we can find 5 bodies for OL with the athletes on the team today. Can you make me less worried?
Let’s say Newsome is out. We’re left with:
Bredeson – played fine for a freshman
Cole – proven commodity
Onwenu – has the mass to play the position
JBB – could slot in at RT with another year of development in the off season
Kugler – I don’t know… 5 star recruit realizes he has to play now
Ulizio – I don’t know
Runyan JR – I’m hoping he’s as good as his pops
Spanellis? Freshman?
DL
We have 4 bodies between NT and DT, and that’s counting Gary as a DT. Any chance some DEs bulk up and move inside? Who?
Grad transfers?
In 3 years I think we’re national champions, but this year might be a little shaky.
I’m more worried about the offensive line when it comes to the 2017 season. I think we’ll be okay on the defensive line because Michigan does a good job of developing the defensive line, but it is a concern going forward with the lack of big bodies in the middle.
The next best option at NT is…Tedarrell Slaton? I don’t know. Michigan hasn’t been recruiting the position that hard, for whatever reason.
I don’t have an answer for you on the OL. It’s been discussed exhaustively. We’ll just have to see what happens.
Lawrence Marshall is a guy I could see playing some 3-tech if necessary. Also, Donovan Jeter, James Hudson, Phillip Paea. Even Michael Onwenu could be a NT if we need him.
Michigan’s 2011 defense was really good. The interior linemen on that team were Martin, Heininger, Campbell, and Washington. The SDE was Ryan Van Bergen, backed up by Brink. That’s 2 walk-ons in the rotation and a guy who would end up flipping to OL. Martin and Van Bergen played a whole lot of snaps as Campbell was just turning into a non-liability and Washington was flipping over from offense.
Compare that group to what we have coming back next year. We are FAR better off. Deeper, more experienced, more talented.
I think people are taking the exceptional and unprecedented depth we had this year as a baseline for comparison. We’ll probably NEVER have a DL that good and that deep again in Michigan football.
The DL is much stronger than most years. Michigan has 3 NTs in Mone, Hurst, and Dwumfour.
The lack of backup experience is what happens when you have a veteran-heavy group. We saw this at LB the previous year. People were worried because there was no depth and experience behind Morgan, Bolden, Ross, Jenkins-Stone, Omejudia. And while, yes, depth was still a bit wobbly, the guys that needed to stepped up. Gedeon was the one vet and McCray, Peppers, Bush, and Winovich all played well.
You can say “Yeah that’s LB, they don’t rotate” but Michigan DL starters are all proven players.
You can say “Yeah but they had to move Charlton and Peppers around to plug wholes” and to that I’d counter – what makes you think they can’t do it again?
Michigan has to find at most 30-40% of meaningful DL snaps from a very deep group of talented prospects. Yes they are inexperienced. But they are also coached by Greg Mattison and Don Brown.
We are going to be fine at DL! The worst case scenario is an injury hacking down one of the 3 top guys (Mone, Hurst, Gary). You still have 2 standout starters in that case.
Nobody knows who is going to step up to backup NT, DT, and SDE but reasonable expectation given the talent and coaching we have is that it will work out.
If you don’t buy that, we are taking a massive DL group in the recruiting class and DL is a position where freshman can traditionally contribute right away, especially on the edge. If you give our DL recruits each a 10% chance at being solid freshman contributors (very pessimistic) you end up with at least one good player most likely.
Aubrey Solomon would be great and he could fill an immediate role and keep the Michigan DL machine running on all cylindars. He isn’t necessary to avert disaster.
Hurst is not a NT. He’s a DT who could possibly be slotted at nose for 3rd downs.
Interior DL is not a position freshmen can traditionally come in and play right away. If that were true we would expect the #1 prospect in the nation, Gary, to have made some sort of all-big list, freshman list excluded. It takes time for 18 year old kids to develop, to be as strong and big as some 23 year old men they’re playing against. Freshmen are much more likely to play any other position than DL or OL.
Hurst and Mone could be gone after this year, and Mone has not played a full season of football due to injuries.
We do need Solomon to keep firing on all cylinders and be great. That’s a need. Matteson says to be a great defense you have to be great down the middle. Not serviceable, or a non-liability. We didn’t do much to build depth the past few recruiting cycles. We need Solomon for immediate depth.
To be fair, Hurst has played a lot of nose tackle. He has 19 tackles for loss and only 7.5 sacks in his career, so 11.5 of those TFLs came on running plays.
the 19 TFL and 7.5 sacks does not say how many of those 11.5 TFLs came on running plays.
Hurst has played some nose tackle. Out of necessity. It’s not because he is designed for that position. He reminds me a bit of Jibreel Black in that sense.
Either way it looks like Solomon is trending Alabama, and I am worried about interior DL depth for the future.
Freshman have played plenty of interior DL, both at Michigan and elsewhere. Granted, they are sometimes limited to pass rushing downs, but that can get your starters breathers just as well as playing them on standard downs (and maybe better).
Hurst has played a ton of NT and he’s more than qualified to be a Mike Martin type of penetrating NT.
Rashan Gary was behind an all conference player. He played plenty.
I do agree Michigan needs to keep adding more interior DL – but they landed a whole bunch of them in this recruiting class. Slap on a typical 20-30 pounds to all these DL recruits and you have a bunch of DTs. You don’t need ‘pure’ NTs anymore than you need ‘pure’ OTs. You develop these guys by adding weight and strength.
They are nice to have, but Michigan doesn’t need a massive 320 pounder at NT to succeed. Solomon isn’t going to be that anyway.
Michigan has 13 DL who are sophomores or younger lined up for the 2017 roster. They’ll need more in 2018 (and every year) but we’re not exactly in trouble here. Yes some of them are pure DEs. Most of them are not limited to that.
Thunder,
Thanks for all the writing. Have a couple questions for you re: trenches.
Are you more worried about OL or DL?
I am terrified of interior DL depth. Can you make me less worried?
If we don’t get Solomon, what is the next best option at NT?
I am terrified we can find 5 bodies for OL with the athletes on the team today. Can you make me less worried?
Let’s say Newsome is out. We’re left with:
Bredeson – played fine for a freshman
Cole – proven commodity
Onwenu – has the mass to play the position
JBB – could slot in at RT with another year of development in the off season
Kugler – I don’t know… 5 star recruit realizes he has to play now
Ulizio – I don’t know
Runyan JR – I’m hoping he’s as good as his pops
Spanellis? Freshman?
DL
We have 4 bodies between NT and DT, and that’s counting Gary as a DT. Any chance some DEs bulk up and move inside? Who?
Grad transfers?
In 3 years I think we’re national champions, but this year might be a little shaky.
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I’m more worried about the offensive line when it comes to the 2017 season. I think we’ll be okay on the defensive line because Michigan does a good job of developing the defensive line, but it is a concern going forward with the lack of big bodies in the middle.
The next best option at NT is…Tedarrell Slaton? I don’t know. Michigan hasn’t been recruiting the position that hard, for whatever reason.
I don’t have an answer for you on the OL. It’s been discussed exhaustively. We’ll just have to see what happens.
Lawrence Marshall is a guy I could see playing some 3-tech if necessary. Also, Donovan Jeter, James Hudson, Phillip Paea. Even Michael Onwenu could be a NT if we need him.
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Michigan’s 2011 defense was really good. The interior linemen on that team were Martin, Heininger, Campbell, and Washington. The SDE was Ryan Van Bergen, backed up by Brink. That’s 2 walk-ons in the rotation and a guy who would end up flipping to OL. Martin and Van Bergen played a whole lot of snaps as Campbell was just turning into a non-liability and Washington was flipping over from offense.
Compare that group to what we have coming back next year. We are FAR better off. Deeper, more experienced, more talented.
I think people are taking the exceptional and unprecedented depth we had this year as a baseline for comparison. We’ll probably NEVER have a DL that good and that deep again in Michigan football.
The DL is much stronger than most years. Michigan has 3 NTs in Mone, Hurst, and Dwumfour.
The lack of backup experience is what happens when you have a veteran-heavy group. We saw this at LB the previous year. People were worried because there was no depth and experience behind Morgan, Bolden, Ross, Jenkins-Stone, Omejudia. And while, yes, depth was still a bit wobbly, the guys that needed to stepped up. Gedeon was the one vet and McCray, Peppers, Bush, and Winovich all played well.
You can say “Yeah that’s LB, they don’t rotate” but Michigan DL starters are all proven players.
You can say “Yeah but they had to move Charlton and Peppers around to plug wholes” and to that I’d counter – what makes you think they can’t do it again?
Michigan has to find at most 30-40% of meaningful DL snaps from a very deep group of talented prospects. Yes they are inexperienced. But they are also coached by Greg Mattison and Don Brown.
We are going to be fine at DL! The worst case scenario is an injury hacking down one of the 3 top guys (Mone, Hurst, Gary). You still have 2 standout starters in that case.
Nobody knows who is going to step up to backup NT, DT, and SDE but reasonable expectation given the talent and coaching we have is that it will work out.
If you don’t buy that, we are taking a massive DL group in the recruiting class and DL is a position where freshman can traditionally contribute right away, especially on the edge. If you give our DL recruits each a 10% chance at being solid freshman contributors (very pessimistic) you end up with at least one good player most likely.
Aubrey Solomon would be great and he could fill an immediate role and keep the Michigan DL machine running on all cylindars. He isn’t necessary to avert disaster.
The OL and DL situations are night and day.
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Hurst is not a NT. He’s a DT who could possibly be slotted at nose for 3rd downs.
Interior DL is not a position freshmen can traditionally come in and play right away. If that were true we would expect the #1 prospect in the nation, Gary, to have made some sort of all-big list, freshman list excluded. It takes time for 18 year old kids to develop, to be as strong and big as some 23 year old men they’re playing against. Freshmen are much more likely to play any other position than DL or OL.
Hurst and Mone could be gone after this year, and Mone has not played a full season of football due to injuries.
We do need Solomon to keep firing on all cylinders and be great. That’s a need. Matteson says to be a great defense you have to be great down the middle. Not serviceable, or a non-liability. We didn’t do much to build depth the past few recruiting cycles. We need Solomon for immediate depth.
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To be fair, Hurst has played a lot of nose tackle. He has 19 tackles for loss and only 7.5 sacks in his career, so 11.5 of those TFLs came on running plays.
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the 19 TFL and 7.5 sacks does not say how many of those 11.5 TFLs came on running plays.
Hurst has played some nose tackle. Out of necessity. It’s not because he is designed for that position. He reminds me a bit of Jibreel Black in that sense.
Either way it looks like Solomon is trending Alabama, and I am worried about interior DL depth for the future.
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Didn’t read before posting… 11.5 TFLs came on plays where Hurst was a NT. My apologies.
Doesn’t say if the 7.5 sacks came on plays where he was NT either.
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Freshman have played plenty of interior DL, both at Michigan and elsewhere. Granted, they are sometimes limited to pass rushing downs, but that can get your starters breathers just as well as playing them on standard downs (and maybe better).
Hurst has played a ton of NT and he’s more than qualified to be a Mike Martin type of penetrating NT.
Rashan Gary was behind an all conference player. He played plenty.
I do agree Michigan needs to keep adding more interior DL – but they landed a whole bunch of them in this recruiting class. Slap on a typical 20-30 pounds to all these DL recruits and you have a bunch of DTs. You don’t need ‘pure’ NTs anymore than you need ‘pure’ OTs. You develop these guys by adding weight and strength.
They are nice to have, but Michigan doesn’t need a massive 320 pounder at NT to succeed. Solomon isn’t going to be that anyway.
Michigan has 13 DL who are sophomores or younger lined up for the 2017 roster. They’ll need more in 2018 (and every year) but we’re not exactly in trouble here. Yes some of them are pure DEs. Most of them are not limited to that.
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