MLive: Shea Patterson for Heisman?

MLive: Shea Patterson for Heisman?


May 16, 2018

37 comments

  1. Comments: 886
    Joined: 1/19/2016
    je93
    May 16, 2018 at 11:20 PM

    Quick, someone get Lanknows… He’ll want to count this as a Heisman finalist, ala speight 2016…

    • GKblue
      Comments: 287
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      GKblue
      May 17, 2018 at 8:21 AM

      I will second to one of those words you use often JE, hyperbole. Sure, I hope like everyone else he can bring us excitement and keep our opponent’s defense honest. This seasons schedule is going to be a tough row to hoe.

      More than anything I predict pot shots at Harbaugh if he can’t beat our rivals even when he “gets his QB”.

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 3733
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      Lanknows
      May 17, 2018 at 5:55 PM

      What’s with people having so little to say they feel the need to make up things from me?

      I didn’t say Speight was a finalist, just like I didn’t say Patterson wouldn’t be eligible.

      • Thunder
        Comments: 2593
        Joined: 7/13/2015
        May 17, 2018 at 9:19 PM

        Quotes from Lanknows:

        “Michigan fans should ask themselves if including Patterson in this sort of thing makes any sense at all. Patterson will not be eligible in 2018, per NCAA rule. That this may be news to some people or seen as contrarian is probably worth further examination.”

        “Point is, this is a rerun. Fans are setting themselves up for disappointment.”

        http://touch-the-banner.com/2018-recruiting-grades-offense/

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 3733
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          May 18, 2018 at 2:46 PM

          Again – that was his actual eligibility status. You made an assumption that he would get a (rarely seen) waiver, just like you made the assumption with Ty Isaac. Congrats on being right on your prediction in the end (unlike with every Isaac prediction) but his status was the reality.

          • Lanknows
            Comments: 3733
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            Lanknows
            May 18, 2018 at 2:58 PM

            It’s ironic to me that somebody who is happy to project out being over scholarship limits (when that isn’t even possible) is also happy to project out rarely seen waivers. What a world where everyone is eligible and on scholarship always.

            To me it seems like rules matter, even if there are exceptions made every once in a while.

            • Thunder
              Comments: 2593
              Joined: 7/13/2015
              May 18, 2018 at 3:26 PM

              You certainly enjoy semantic arguments. I’ve never said we get more than 85 scholarships. You just don’t like the way I phrase it in my posts, even though everyone – including you, including me – knows we only get 85. That’s the point of the whole exercise: to keep track of how far above or below the scholarship limit we are for upcoming seasons. I’m sorry you can’t understand that, but whining about it isn’t going to change it. Those posts will continue.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 3733
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              May 21, 2018 at 11:12 AM

              Yes, pointing to the post where you rank Ty Isaac #19 in importance clearly proves that you are right….

              And calling Ty Isaac an NFL-worthy prospect certainly displays how you openly admit how wrong you are and have every right to criticize others for not doing so….

              I was wrong to discourage optimism on Patterson. I wasn’t wrong in pointing out the fact that he was ineligible.

              You’re like the guy who points to the lottery winner as proof that buying tickets isn’t for suckers.

              • Thunder
                Comments: 2593
                Joined: 7/13/2015
                May 21, 2018 at 11:18 AM

                Ummmm…you said I predicted he would be eligible. I posted proof that you were (again) wrong.

                No idea what you’re talking with the lottery winner thing. There have been basically two incidents since I’ve covered Michigan where people have applied for waivers to be immediately eligible instead of having to sit out a year. I said Isaac would sit out, and he did. I said Patterson would be eligible, and he is. That a 100% hit rate so far. I’m not sure what you’re complaining about, other than bitching because you’re wrong and need somebody to lash out at.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 3733
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM

                  LOL. Please explain the #19 ranking. How is a guy you “correctly” said would be ineligibile more important to a season than people starting.

                  I said repeatedly that Patterson could be eligile. I said repeatedly that he was, in fact, ineligible but needed a waiver. such a waiver was rare. You can pull that quote from the context of a much longer discussion if you want but you know damn well what I was saying. My stance was that it was unlikely, which it was, for most people. An unlikely thing happened — which is great! I’m celebrating even if you want to hate.

                • Thunder
                  Comments: 2593
                  Joined: 7/13/2015
                  May 21, 2018 at 1:11 PM

                  The #19 ranking is explained in the post. Go back and read it.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 3733
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM

                  When you write a lot, thousands of blog posts or thousands of comments, you’re going to be wrong. Especially wrt predictions. Despite vigorously debating some of the bigger disagreements, I’ve always been cordial and understanding. And, until recently, that cordiality was generally returned. I think being so dang wrong on Ty Isaac again and again broke Thunder. He took it personally and started being insulting and intolerant. So that’s too bad I guess.

                • Thunder
                  Comments: 2593
                  Joined: 7/13/2015
                  May 21, 2018 at 1:32 PM

                  I disagree with your take. The negativity started several months ago when you started whining and complaining on this site about opinions you disagreed with. It continues to this day. Generally, the only time you comment on this site anymore is when two or three subjects come up: Ty Isaac, Wilton Speight, and Shea Patterson. You like to try to rub Isaac in my face, you argue that Speight was a good QB/Heisman contender, and you argue about Shea Patterson’s eligibility status.

                  Otherwise, you don’t say anything. Almost every comment here on my site includes a jab at me, the content of my site, etc.

                  If you don’t like it, leave. I’ve told you this before. Your negativity is not wanted. You want to talk football, recruiting, personnel, etc.? Fine. When you pop up just to bitch and moan about Isaac, Patterson’s eligibility, and Speight’s QB prowess, it gets old and tiresome. Almost every commenter here has called you a pot-stirrer or something of the like. That’s generally not a compliment. I have “stirred the pot” on occasion at MGoBlog, but I don’t just pop up on Brian’s posts to whine and complain about Brian’s takes on two or three topics, and then disappear just to return again when I’m ready to whine.

                  “When you write a lot, thousands of blog posts or thousands of comments, you’re going to be wrong.”

                  This goes both ways. But when you’re wrong – factually, not even just in regard to opinions – you continue to beat the drum for yourself until everyone just gives up. That’s how (without checking for specifics) you have something like 3,700 posts on the site, and the proprietor (me) is #2 on the list with something like 2,400.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 3733
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 22, 2018 at 12:59 PM

                  The last post I wrote on here, that wasn’t a response to somebody saying something negative, was celebratory – Shea Patterson’s eligible! You took that as an opportunity to take unwarranted shots at me.

                  You can put it on me if you want to. Your blog.

                • Thunder
                  Comments: 2593
                  Joined: 7/13/2015
                  May 22, 2018 at 1:27 PM

                  Unwarranted? You talked for months and said definitively that he wouldn’t be eligible, and you guffawed at people (like me) who predicted he would be eligible. I have collected a series of quotes from you on Patterson from over the past few months, all of which are delivered with a sense of haughtiness that shows you think you’re smarter than the foolish fans who “would rather hear what they want to hear.” You talk down to people for months, and then when someone points out you were wrong, you get all huffy about it.

                  “Perhaps it won’t be much of a loss if the NCAA rules to make an eligibility exception for Patterson – pure speculation with little precedent, even though some would rather hear what they want to hear.”

                  “Shea Patterson is not eligible in 2018 due to NCAA rules about transfers. I did read he hired a very confident lawyer to file for an exemption and talk about himself in the media.”

                  “Most fans did not care and continue to not care, but I continue to see the Wilton Speight transfer as a potential disaster for Harbaugh and therefore this program as well. So about that waiver…”

                  “Michigan fans should ask themselves if including Patterson in this sort of thing makes any sense at all. Patterson will not be eligible in 2018, per NCAA rule.”

                  “Point is, this is a rerun. Fans are setting themselves up for disappointment.”

                  “There isn’t much (any?) precedent for the sort of waiver Patterson might pursue being successful. There’s no good reason to think it will be, unless you listen to the pundits – who, it should be remembered, peddle hope to fans thirsting for it.”

                  “Is there any legit reason to think Patterson will be eligible? Other than he and we hope it to be so. Are there many precedents for this kind of thing? This feels like the Ty Isaac thing where Michigan fans confuse their wishes with reality.”

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 3733
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 22, 2018 at 3:33 PM

                “You talked for months and said definitively that he wouldn’t be eligible”

                False.

                Per the quotes you pulled. I talked about how he wasn’t eligible. Because he wasn’t. That was the point. I never said anything “definitively” about the future. All the quotes speak to situation at the time. We all heard about the waiver. We all knew it was possible. What I was disputing was people treating him like he was eligible when the waiver hadn’t even been submitted. Facts.

                Now he is eligible – so I am happy about that. But you want to be combative about it. For you this was an opportunity to collect quotes where I tired to dampen the optimism. You had already made an assumption so maybe you weren’t focused on the good news like I was/am. Instead you want to be negative while I was being celebratory. And then call me out for being negative….

                Another approach might have been: “Welcome to the party lank, you’re late. we’ve alreaddy been celebrating for weeks”.

                You can do what you want but I’m going to call you out when you make things up.

                I was wrong in discouraging others optimism on Patterson like I already said. If I treated the patterson eligibility like you treat ty isaac’s ability I’d still be claiming Patterson won’t be eligible because blah blah YPC blah blah.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 3733
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              May 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM

              Honestly your inability to admit you are wrong – on Isaac, on Shaw, on Cox, on Denard, on etc. is pathological. And the hypocrisy to call me out for failing to admit I’m wrong on top of it! The more wrong you are the more you focus on your own predictions and toot your own horn. Frankly, I think it’s compromising your ability to evaluate football. Ty Isaac NFL prospect…..dooooooode.

              • Thunder
                Comments: 2593
                Joined: 7/13/2015
                May 21, 2018 at 1:19 PM

                The proof is in the pudding. Ty Isaac’s not in the NFL. He didn’t get drafted. I was wrong, because I made a prediction about a fact that did not come true. There’s no admission necessary.

                Ty Isaac wasn’t eligible in 2014. I was right. Shea Patterson is eligible in 2018. I was right. I was right about both of those things, and yet you have continuously argued that I was wrong. You said I was wrong about predicting Isaac to be eligible in 2014. That is a factually inaccurate statement you made, but you continue to trot it out with lame metaphors like “You’re the guy who points to the lottery winner and says everyone should play the lottery” or whatever it was.

                I’ve never sat here and tried to claim that Speight was a Heisman candidate, nor tried to argue that Patterson was ineligible but he could be eligible but he wasn’t at the time but everyone said he was but he wasn’t because it hadn’t happened yet so I was right because the thing I was right about hadn’t happened yet so how could I have been wrong?

          • Thunder
            Comments: 2593
            Joined: 7/13/2015
            May 18, 2018 at 3:20 PM

            You’re always willing to criticize, so you should be willing to take your lumps, too.

            Nobody said he WAS eligible. Some people (including me) predicted that he WOULD BE eligible. You said he “will not be.” You were wrong. You said Michigan fans were setting themselves up for disappointment in regard to his eligibility; we, in fact, were not. You were wrong. You said we should ask ourselves if projecting him to play in 2018 “makes any sense at all.” It did, in fact, make sense, despite your protestations.

            I defended you in the Heisman discussion. In regard to Patterson’s eligibility, you were wrong. Take your lumps.

            Regarding Ty Isaac, you are/were once again mistaken. Here are quotes from my 2014 countdown post:

            “It’s unclear whether Isaac will be available for the 2014 season; he will have to get a waiver from the NCAA, which they are not likely to grant since Michigan is outside the 100-mile radius from Joliet, IL.”
            “He probably won’t play a down in 2014.”

            http://touch-the-banner.com/2014-season-countdown-19-ty-isaac/

      • Comments: 886
        Joined: 1/19/2016
        je93
        May 17, 2018 at 9:28 PM

        You said he was a candidate, right? And your only article was one which the author shot down that notion in the very next sentence….

        • Thunder
          Comments: 2593
          Joined: 7/13/2015
          May 17, 2018 at 10:16 PM

          To be fair, he never said Speight was a finalist. He did, however, say he was a candidate based on Jim Harbaugh saying Speight should be a candidate, and Lanknows also said several times in the following thread (and elsewhere) that he thought Speight could win the Heisman:

          http://touch-the-banner.com/2017-season-countdown-1-wilton-speight/

          For example:

          “I think that not only can Speight be better, but he can be much better – All Conference 1st team, the Heisman, 1st round draft pick — it’s all on the table for a guy with 2 more years of eligibility.”

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 3733
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM

          Thunder is right here. I said he looked like a Heisman contender at one point in time, which was backed up by Harbaugh and media.

          Thunder is also right that, to boil it down, I said Speight could (and even would) be better than he actually was. All of our QBs stunk last year, but that’s neither here nor there. Speight didn’t play like I thought he would.

          So what I actually said: Speight “looked like” a Heisman contender. Speight “could be” a Hesiman contender.

          What I was accused of saying: “Speight was a Hesiman finalist”.

          • Lanknows
            Comments: 3733
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            Lanknows
            May 18, 2018 at 2:54 PM

            The only Heisman finalists of recent memory are Jabril Peppers and Denard Robinson. Or as he’s known around here Denard “Not a good QB even though he was a Hesiman finalist” Robinson.

          • Comments: 886
            Joined: 1/19/2016
            je93
            May 20, 2018 at 12:58 PM

            But Harbaugh said he “should” be, not that he was. The media did not, in fact your very own article stated he might be, but then turned around and mocked that notion right away
            You thought he would continue to get better, because some QBs improve into their 30s. He didn’t. His best performances were against crap teams (at home), and when surrounded by veteran NFL-bound talent. His last six or so games proved his best days were behind him. While it seemed pessimistic a year ago to think he was “close to his ceiling,” it turned out speight had already reached it against Maryland 2016. It was down hill from there

            ‘I said he looked like a Heisman contender at one point in time, which was backed up by Harbaugh and media”

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 3733
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              May 21, 2018 at 11:21 AM

              Update: Speight got hurt last year.

              Update: Speight’s career isn’t over.

              • Comments: 886
                Joined: 1/19/2016
                je93
                May 21, 2018 at 3:26 PM

                1) he had gotten worse before he got injured;
                2) he probably won’t start at UCLA. I seriously doubt he ever plays a game better than Maryland 2016 (like I said, that was his peak)

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 3733
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 22, 2018 at 12:52 PM

                  That depends on when he got hurst against Iowa.

                • Comments: 886
                  Joined: 1/19/2016
                  je93
                  May 22, 2018 at 2:31 PM

                  Every player gets “hurt”

                  I specified “injured,” which didn’t happen until that last Iowa play

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 3733
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 22, 2018 at 3:35 PM

                Speight’s so terrible that Harbaugh tried to get him back and Chip Kelly gave him a scholarship.

                Some people think they know better.

                • Comments: 886
                  Joined: 1/19/2016
                  je93
                  May 22, 2018 at 9:20 PM

                  Harbaugh tried to get him back? When? Speight saying it was possible, doesn’t mean it was probable, or even the preferred outcome

                  He won’t start at UCLA, and probably won’t ever play. Chip is coming in to a raw TrFr QB, who isn’t even on campus. Makes sense to scrounge for experience in the QB room

  2. Lanknows
    Comments: 3733
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    May 18, 2018 at 2:55 PM

    Glad to provide you with something to talk about. Have a nice weekend

    • Comments: 572
      Joined: 9/13/2015
      michymich
      May 19, 2018 at 10:13 PM

      You are the straw that stirs the debate. You have strong takes. You tend to go out on the edge to provoke but I guess somebody has to do it.

      I haven’t been on this site for a little bit. Any recent strong takes that you have taken heat for that I am not aware of? Give me something to chew on. Last time I was on here, you and Thunder were in the middle of a divorce or trial separation. I see that hasn’t really changed.

      • Lanknows
        Comments: 3733
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        Lanknows
        May 21, 2018 at 11:19 AM

        No. People have resorted to twisting things I said months ago to try to get a conversation going. I’m obliging but haven’t heard any thank yous. I think my last actual comment that wasn’t rehashing things was celebrating Patterson’s eligibility – a major deal for the football team that lost it’s best QB to transfer.

        Of course I was criticized after that, as if I was the guy pushing for Brandon Peters all year…

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 3733
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          May 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM

          Happy Monday Thunder! Glad I can help you out with some content.

  3. Comments: 886
    Joined: 1/19/2016
    je93
    May 21, 2018 at 3:33 PM

    Holy crap, this guy believes this! How very entertaining 😂🤣😂

    “… but you know damn well what I was saying”

    “I’ve always been cordial & understanding”

  4. Lanknows
    Comments: 3733
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    May 22, 2018 at 3:45 PM

    “Assuming that Isaac’s waiver is granted and he is eligible to play in 2014, I would not think that redshirting him would be a great idea. If he’s not immediately the best runner, he offers some value as a pass receiver out of the backfield and perhaps in an H-back type of role.”

    http://touch-the-banner.com/ty-isaac-wolverine/

    “Michigan has scholarships to give after the 2014 class was signed, and Isaac could very well earn a waiver to play in 2014, much like Tennessee-to-Michigan State receiver DeAnthony Arnett did last year. If Isaac were to decide on wearing a winged helmet, he could conceivably be a starter by this fall.”

    http://touch-the-banner.com/thoughts-on-ty-isaac-situation/

    “While I believe the running game will improve this season, a number of factors go into that – coaching, experience on the offensive line, experience at running back, and the addition of Ty Isaac.”

    http://touch-the-banner.com/spring-practice-bits-and-pieces/

    These comments came before and after ranking Isaac #19 in importance to the 2014 season. I don’t think I need to define the countdown for Thunder but it’s not a listing of most talented players.

    But according to Thunder he was right about Isaac’s eligibility.

    • Thunder
      Comments: 2593
      Joined: 7/13/2015
      May 22, 2018 at 8:17 PM

      Thank you for supporting my point. “Assuming he’s eligible” and “he could earn a waiver” and such are all admissions of uncertainty. All of those posts you linked came PRIOR to the ranking of Ty Isaac at #19, so you’re wrong (again).

      The countdown is a ranking of most important players. Michigan was missing (in my estimation at the time) the #19 most important player on the roster. They went 5-7 that year. It’s conceivable that the #19 most important player on the team could have changed the outcome of some of those games, such as a close loss to Rutgers and a close loss to Maryland. Maybe Isaac wouldn’t have been a difference-maker, but that’s the definition of what the countdown is all about.

      At no point did I definitively state that Isaac would or wouldn’t be ineligible. I also did not say Patterson would or wouldn’t be ineligible. I also didn’t talk down to people who were optimistic or pessimistic about his chances. As more information came to light about Isaac, I came to the conclusion that I did not believe he would be eligible (thus the link I posted), and my opinion did not change after that. As more information came to light about Patterson, I came to the conclusion that I believed he would be eligible. That also came to fruition.

      On the other hand, well…you can see the series of posts where you definitively stated things, claimed that Michigan fans were setting themselves up for disappointment, etc.

      I’m not wasting any more time on this conversation.

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