MLive: Should Michigan fans be concerned about recent departures?

MLive: Should Michigan fans be concerned about recent departures?


August 11, 2018

A couple transfers have been announced in recent weeks (LINK). The McDoom transfer bothers me more than the others.

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12 comments

  1. Comments: 832
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    WindyCityBlue
    Aug 12, 2018 at 7:22 AM

    The concern is not necessarily the departures themselves since, as pointed out, the players leaving were not looking like important contributors at this point. The concern is the number of failures in player evaluation and development.

    • Comments: 974
      Joined: 1/19/2016
      je93
      Aug 12, 2018 at 10:07 AM

      The only difference between now and previous years is that “failures in player evaluation and development’ do not stick around for 4-5 years. It’s identified early, and scholarships open up when they leave
      I don’t wish departed players bad things, but appreciate that they realize this and move on

      This puts it on the coaches to replace them with much better players. I’d that the case with what we’ve lost this summer? I think so

      • Thunder
        Comments: 2626
        Joined: 7/13/2015
        Aug 12, 2018 at 10:32 AM

        I don’t have much of an issue with the departures because most of them have been replaced by higher rated recruits. If failing to hit on Kekoa Crawford and losing him is the result of getting Tarik Black/Donovan Peoples-Jones, then I’m mostly okay with that. That’s the “meritocracy” of college football.

        My biggest problem with the departures this off-season is that we traded:

        Drake Harris, Maurice Ways, Kekoa Crawford, and Eddie McDoom
        for
        Ronnie Bell

        • Comments: 974
          Joined: 1/19/2016
          je93
          Aug 12, 2018 at 11:25 AM

          Fair enough, but I look at it more as a trade of production: those 4, but we kept our 5 best WR, a walk-on who got more PT/production than either 5thyrSr, and added Bell

          “Drake Harris, Maurice Ways, Kekoa Crawford, and Eddie McDoom for Ronnie Bell”

      • Comments: 832
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        WindyCityBlue
        Aug 12, 2018 at 9:11 PM

        If Harbaugh is doing no better at player evaluation and development than Rodriguez or Hoke, but just recognizing his failures sooner, that’s not much of an improvement. It’s certainly not going to get us to elite status.

        • Comments: 974
          Joined: 1/19/2016
          je93
          Aug 12, 2018 at 10:06 PM

          WCB, what percentage of a recruiting class do you think works out? I’d say about 1/2-2/3. Even at Bama, the reason TrFr get on the field is because they’ve passed someone else up
          My point was – now – instead of keeping non-productive/contributing players on roster for 4-5yrs, by year 2-3 they’re moving on and being replaced with players who can get it done

          • Comments: 832
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            WindyCityBlue
            Aug 13, 2018 at 8:32 AM

            There’s a huge difference between having 1/2 of your recruits wash out and only a third. That’s the difference between us and teams like Alabama, Clemson and OSU. That’s why some teams never seem to have a down year, no matter how many guys they lose to the NFL, while other teams are always scrambling to fill roster holes with starting caliber players at a championship level.

            • Thunder
              Comments: 2626
              Joined: 7/13/2015
              Aug 13, 2018 at 8:35 AM

              Is that the difference, though? This is a legitimate question. Do you know how many players Alabama, Clemson, and OSU have retained from 2015, 2016, etc.? I don’t follow them enough to know, and I don’t really have the time to track them all down.

              • Comments: 832
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                WindyCityBlue
                Aug 13, 2018 at 9:26 AM

                It’s not even a matter of them being “retained”. It’s a question of how many of them get turned into high quality starters, and how many end up as Maurice Ways types of players. Whether they stay for their whole scholarship life and never really contribute, or leave after 2 or 3 years, if they’re being replaced by new players with the same rate of success, it doesn’t really matter.

                Bottom line, Michigan is still succeeding with too low a percentage of their recruits to be elite.

                • Thunder
                  Comments: 2626
                  Joined: 7/13/2015
                  Aug 13, 2018 at 9:53 AM

                  “Bottom line, Michigan is still succeeding with too low a percentage of their recruits to be elite.”

                  This is an obvious and vague statement that can be said about any team that’s not deemed to be “elite.” I went back to Alabama’s 2014 wide receiver class to compare, since you used Ways as a note. Derek Kief has 7 catches for 62 yards and 1 touchdown in his career. Cam Sims averaged 10.3 catches/year over four years and had 2 career touchdowns at Alabama. Why are those numbers so bad/mediocre? Maybe it’s because Amari Cooper, Calvin Ridley, O.J. Howard, and others were also recruited to Alabama.

                  It’s a small sample size, of course, which is why I asked you for more. So far I don’t see any data or proof that your statement about development is accurate.

  2. Comments: 832
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    WindyCityBlue
    Aug 13, 2018 at 2:12 PM

    No, it’s not just because Amari Cooper, Calvin Ridley, O.J. Howard, and others were RECRUITED to Alabama, it was equally because, once there, the coaches turned them from elite recruits to elite college players. As we’ve seen here at Michigan (and elsewhere), that’s not a given.

    And yes, of course, even the best teams have some recruiting busts. But they have fewer than the teams that keep trying to be elite, but never make it.

    As far as evidence, it’s right in front of you all the time. Why do you think a team like Alabama contends for the national championship one year, and then, no matter how many elite players they lose, are ALWAYS contenders for the NC the next year? And the next. And the next. It’s not because they’re lucky. It’s because they develop a steady stream of high quality starters at every position group. No roster holes, no hand-wringing over who’s going to replace a first round draft pick.

  3. Lanknows
    Comments: 3878
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    Aug 14, 2018 at 2:39 PM

    Hi.

    My opinion is this: I have zero worry about WR depth.

    Michigan recruited with attrition in mind. This was always the plan. 9 WR combined in the 2016 and 2017 class – you know what’s going to happen. This is a standard approach at RB but it works anywhere. You take more than you need, knowing some will fall by the wayside.

    Recruiting by volume was necessitated by the post Darboh/Chesson gap created by Hoke staff. Also Harbaugh’s other priorities (and limited scholarships) in the thrown-together ’15 class.

    It’s unfortunate that no one is left standing from the ’16 class. That had a huge effect last year and it must be acknowledge as a failure. BUT – it’s seemingly mitigated by the ’17 class plus the arrival of Jim McElwain as WR coach.

    Today – Michigan has plenty WRs available. Black, DPJ, Perry seem to be leading the charge as starters. Confidence expressed in Collins and Martin. We know Schonle is serviceable. There’s 7 WR counting Bell, which isn’t far off Carr/Moeller era norms. That’s plenty when a) they use a FB or 2nd TE on most downs and b) slot receiver can deploy Flex TEs and athletes (e.g., Evans, Thomas, freshman RB/DB).

    I’ve seen stress about the number of WRs coming in vs going out but I don’t think Michigan should try to get back to double digits. Not if they stick with their current tactics and personnel.

    Hopefully the turnover has stabilized. Perry is the only upperclassmen by eligibility. If the others look to stick, Michigan doesn’t need to recruit more than a couple WRs in the next class.

    Rather than depth, the concern is developing top-tier starters who are consistent play-makers. It’s true that there isn’t much room for error, but that doesn’t change much with Crawford or McDoom back.

    In my view, a starter going down will hurt less at WR than any other offensive position. Even after the departures.

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