Brandon Peters (#18, image via MLive)
Name: Brandon Peters
Height: 6’5″
Weight: 216 lbs.
High school: Avon (IN) Avon
Position: Quarterback
Class: Redshirt freshman
Jersey number: #18
Last year: I ranked Peters #75 and said he would redshirt. He redshirted.
TTB Rating: 90
Michigan fans have been desperate for a pro-level quarterback recruit for several years, and that guy finally came in 2016. Some expected an immediate push for playing time, but that was unlikely for a player who played against merely solid competition in high school and didn’t have individual QB training. There was a steep learning curve for Peters, and there were even rumors that he was a bit homesick and considering going back closer to home. The biggest knock on him throughout last season and the spring was a lack of command, for the offense for the team.
Some of those issues still exist, and news came out recently that returning starter Wilton Speight and fifth year senior John O’Korn have separated themselves from the rest of the quarterbacks during fall camp. That comes after a spring in which Peters often looked like the most talented QB on the roster, including in the spring game. I still believe Peters is the more valuable backup puzzle piece, because Michigan needs to groom him for 2017 and beyond. O’Korn will graduate after this season, and he might be the guy who steps in if something happens to Speight. But I think Peters can do a good job, and he needs game experience. The coaching staff needs to get him on the field and see what they have. I have a hard time picturing Peters overtaking Speight either this season or next, but there’s a chance that Speight enters the NFL early or suffers further injury to his shoulder, and Michigan needs to prepare for that possibility.
Prediction: Backup quarterback
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No one should really be surprised or disappointed. The “recent news” is also known as status quo. Peters’ long-term potential is unsullied and his impressive spring remains relevant. He’s still an excellent bet to be the starter within 2 years and be very very good.
As for the countdown – Welp. Congrats to Peters on winning the Ty Isaac award for overwrought offseason hype. I feel bad for putting him at #34.
It was always going to be hard for Peters to unseat O’Korn but I bought into the spring hype surge enough to think he would pass him.
This is obviously way too high for the 3rd string QB and frankly, even if Peters had won the backup job #21 would be too. Speight’s The Man – the others aren’t going to be as good right now – end of “recent news”.
I do agree with Thunder that Michigan will want to prepare Peters for a big role next year. He’s an important player for the program but not for the season. The distinction is meaningful. By the measuring stick of the countdown (if he was hurt how much would he be missed) the answer has always been “little if at all”.
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I would say one goal of many seasons is to give younger guys – in particular a QB – a chance to get experience. The idea of getting guys developmental snaps pops up throughout the countdown.
As for the “recent news” being “status quo,” I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. If O’Korn were viewed as a close #2 in the spring, he would have been the Blue Team’s QB. The Blue Team’s coaches obviously thought they could win with Peters and didn’t want O’Korn, and they were right.
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This is what I mean about reading too much into the spring.
Development is important but not to this season’s outcomes. Most of that is happening in practice… which is what the spring game is.
To argue development in one paragraph and ignore the possibility that the staff was doing just that when they put Peters in the spotlight in another is something.
It seems obvious to me that a RS Freshman is going to get more out of a consequence-free (albeit high profile) practice than a 5th year senior with starting experience. It doesn’t mean the coaches thought he was the inferior player.
The ding on Peters since nearly day one is that he has to work on leadership, pocket-presence,etc. That’s something that requires development and it won’t happen overnight.
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I’m on the record as saying our offensive line will get fragile speight injured, and that young BP will take over
As for last year, I don’t get the folks who thought he was ready from day 1; the reports of being homesick, not taking command in the huddle, etc are clear signs of needing more time
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Yes but one offseason of it isn’t enough to develop that to an extent where he would pass a veteran who has proven he can be excellent when he is on and healthy. Apparently (unless you think Harbaugh is lying — possible) it’s not even enough to pass a veteran who has proven he might not be so excellent (O’Korn).
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I don’t think JH was lying, but it was no accident that Peters wasn’t even mentioned–I think that’s motivational
I also believe that Peters will be next man in because (as Thunder wrote), they need to get him reps. I’d be shocked if, when speight goes down, Peters isn’t first in (especially as the season progresses)
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Are you saying they will compromise 2017 to develop for 2018?
Or that Peters is flat-out ahead of O’Korn and Harbaugh is BSing?
If the latter — any precedent for this? We’ve seen him BS about competition before but I don’t recall a case where he said X had separated ahead of Y and then gone back on it.
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No, I don’t think it’s a compromise. I think Peters will be ahead of JOK (if not Speight) by year’s end
Precedence of JH not being 100% transparent, and using motivational tactics? Hmmm… Maybe 2015 QB race? We were told it was tight, even by the time BTN came through. By the time Rudock got hurt, Morris was leapfrogged by speight. According to speight himself (last year), there was no competition in 2015; Rudock had it the moment fall camps started
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Harbaugh never said Morris had separated from Rudock. He never said O’Korn had separated from Speight. This is not manufacturing competition – this is the opposite of that.
This is not a case a case of being “not transparent” it would be a case of flat-out saying the opposite of the truth if Peters was ahead of O’Korn right now.
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No, he didn’t say Morris was ahead of rudock, and neither did I. He said it was a competition, but it wasn’t
I know he didn’t say JOK separated from speight, nor did I. I do think though, that anyone that watched last year knows it was probably not a gameday decision; speight was likely ahead early
I also didn’t say with any certainty that Peters was ahead of JOK. I wrote that “I think Peters will be ahead of JOK by year’s end.” That’s just my guess
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Nobody is putting words in your mouth. Just making a point that Harbaugh might not be BSing here – doesn’t fit his MO.
Harbaugh is BS in some ways and not BS in others. Not everything he says should be dismissed just because some things should – is all I am saying.
You are entitled to whatever guess you want. I’m just telling you why I think you should believe what Harbaugh is saying in this case.
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I take Harbaugh’s comments as both motivational and truthful. If Speight goes down it’ll be O’Korn they trust to come in. At least for now. Of course the ‘competition’ will continue into the season and I think Peters development is real. I believe he’s closed the gap and now we have 2 solid options if our starter goes down. That’s a good thing.
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Ah, almost prophetic, huh Lank?
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I don’t understand why anyone would think Peters would have a bigger role next year. Speight has flaws and is continually working on them and will be good enough to fend off an inexperienced qb. I like Speight. He has some great intangibles. He is a leader, tough, moves well in the pocket and makes good decisions overall. Game manager is a good description.
Problem with Speight is not a pure passer like Peters and doesn’t have as much upside but I don’t see how Peters gets the job down the line if Speight doesn’t falter. Speight may not have the great line but he has some very talented wr’s who are more than likely going to make him look good.
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Peters will have a bigger role in 2018 by default. With O’Korn gone, he’s the clear-cut #2. The #2 has wound up playing non-garbage time snaps each of the last 3 years (O’Korn vs. IU, Speight at Minnesota, Morris vs. Minnesota).
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Because O’Korn graduates.
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Also because there’s a chance that Speight goes pro. Either because he is excellent or because he sees Peters coming for his job and gets while the gettin’s good.
The NFL, quite clearly, is a league that is very very thirsty for fresh young options at QB. A Harbaugh-developed one is going to be appealing. Rudock probably has more physical limitations than Speight yet he’s an NFL #2.
If Speight doesn’t get any better – he just plays like he did in the 1st half of the season again – he’s probably getting drafted at the end of the year.
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It’s interesting that there’s a significant portion of the fanbase who simply does not want to recognize either how good Speight can be or how good he already was (3rd in Big Ten in passing efficiency as a soph). Part of that is the disappointing end to the season after expectations sky-rocketed. Nevermind that a defensive stop or special teams play against OSU or FSU would have changed outcomes…the outcomes affect perceptions a lot. So does buying into a hype about the next great young thing.
In some ways it is good. I have a feeling that many of the Speight skeptics will be fans if we beat florida and avoid getting upset prior to PSU.
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Recognize how good Speight “can be”? There’s nothing there to “recognize” except guesswork, speculation and wishful thinking. He was a third year player last year, not a true sophomore, but you glossed that over, as well as the fact that Big Ten QBs mostly sucked last year, so third place isn’t that great. He would have been no better than 6th in the Pac-10, Big 12, ACC or SEC.
As far as outcomes, fewer misses of wide open receivers by Speight would have changed outcomes, too.
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There’s the 1st half of the season when Speight was an elite QB while still only sophomore eligible, before he got hurt.
Ran down nicely on mgoblog on probably the best post on that site in 2017:
http://mgoblog.com/diaries/two-kinds-speight
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I assume anyone reading here knows that that Speight red-shirted.
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Sure – Speight could have played better. He has 2 years to do so. No reason to think he won’t. Plenty to think he will like the vast majority of players who improve from RS Soph to RS Senior.
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1. Speight may have been #3 in the Big Ten in passing efficiency, but he was #41 nationally, which is about 1/3 of the way down the list.
2. It was not a strong year for QB play in the Big Ten. The #1 guy was good (McSorley), but when #2 is Maryland’s Perry Hills, I’m surprised you’re making this point. He beat out the likes of dual-threat Barrett, Richard Lagow, Clayton Thorson, etc. In six games against ranked teams, Speight threw 6 TDs and 5 picks. Michigan had a historically bad OL in 2013, and in three games against ranked teams that year, Devin Gardner threw 8 TDs and 2 picks.
3. Speight is an OLD redshirt sophomore. He spent an extra year in high school. Saying “He did all that as a sophomore” is rather misleading.
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1st point is taken. It was not a great year for Big Ten QBs BUT – the guy at Iowa was the guy they dumped Rudock for.
2nd point (disregard for dual threat QBs) not taken. Sorry but it’ll take a long time for your “Denard Robinson is not a good quarterback” comment to go away for me.
3rd point – not arguing that speight is young by college standards. Speight has 2 more years to improve and likely will. That’s what Harbaugh coaching does whether you are 18, 22, or 27. See: Alex Smith. If you want to argue that he’s learned what he can from Harbaugh then I’m going to argue Pep Hamilton has some words of wisdom.
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Perhaps, but he’s almost 23 and has had private coaching since early High School, in addition to three springs & fall camps with Harbaugh. If we don’t see significant improvement now, we probably never will
“Speight has 2 more years to improve and likely will”
*and that’s not speight–is, just reality
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*speight-hate, it’s not speight-hate
Most reasonable fans just want to win, regardless of who is behind Center. That doesn’t mean we won’t have differing opinions
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we just saw a massive upgrade last year
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We saw an improvement through Rutgers. Second half at East Lansing, against Illinois, and then from the last 3 quarters at Iowa through spring we went backward
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Things are going to go up and down from game to game and will generally go down when the competition gets tougher. The point is the general trajectory from his RS Freshman year was massive improvement.
It does also depend on how you view the injury.
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This assumes that Speight has a ceiling much higher than he’s already shown and that more coaching can improve him significantly. Recent history of Michigan quarterbacks shows that they tend to plateau early and never reach elite status. Speight was not “elite” for half a season last year, not unless the standards for being elite are very low. If you want to see a guy who was an elite quarterback last year as a (true) sophomore, look at Jake Browning. Superior in every way, despite being younger, having had less coaching, and having a supporting cast of mainly 3 star talent.
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Not so much an assumption as an observation of probability based on historical evidence.
Most people get better. Not everyone, but most.
Most people do not hit their ceiling when they are in their early 20s.
The overwhelming historical evidence points to Speight getting better.
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Speight-haters are going to double down even when proven wrong in the Speight/Peters battle. Good luck with that…
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Speight isn’t going to go high in the draft and would need to come back and continually improve. I don’t think scouts are that impressed with his passing prowess. He does some very good things which make him a very good college qb. I agree with you that some people don’t appreciate Speight and only see his weaknesses but I don’t see him leaving early whatsoever unless he improves as a passer. I think he is actually mediocre on the accuracy.
Speight reminds me of a poor mans Grbac. Compliment. Grbac had a much better touch and more accurate. Speight has really good pocket presence and movement. I expect the talented wr’s to make Speight look even better but scouts won’t be drooling over him as a qb.
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Speight completely reminds me of Navarre, with the exception of not having passes batted down at the line of scrimmage every game. Good, solid, just not good enough to win the really tough games. And never will be.
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I was going to say Navarre but Speight is my mind a much better quarterback. Navarre had the same issues throwing the ball but was a DE playing qb whereas Speight has a feel for the position but his throwing mechanics like Navarre will not allow him to succeed at the NFL level. I do think Speight could be all BT as a qb because he will have the surrounding tools to succeed and Harbaugh/Hamilton will put him in positions to succeed such as throwing balls that are catchable. Harbaugh is good at that, playing to his strengths and hiding the warts.
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Navarre was drafted in the NFL after setting a whole bunch of Michigan passing records. Comparing Speight to him should be considered a complement.
Not only are they big bodied dudes but they also led high profile comebacks against Minnesota. I like what you guys are cookin’
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Navarre was a good to very good quarterback, bit never great. Never a winner in the big games against the tough teams. Stats records due mainly to longevity, because we couldn’t recruit and develop anyone better, so we just kept plugging in Navarre. That’s exactly what Speight will be. Far more frustration than excitement. A three year starter who will always lose at least one game that we shouldn’t have lost or could have won, and who will never carry the team to a big signature win (Minnesota shouldn’t even have been in the stadium with us in either game).
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These are your emotions you are talking about. You can feel however you want to feel about it.
I’m just saying there’s a decent chance that Speight will have an opportunity to be drafted in the NFL. That means he’ll likely be turning down some significant coin to return to Michigan for another year. He will probably do that, but Michigan fans shouldn’t assume we’ll be so lucky.
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I mean… Grbac had a solid NFL career.
I’m not out here arguing he’s the next Tom Brady but look at some of the dudes starting in the NFL. Jake Rudock is a backup and he got booted from Iowa and looks like he has a teenager’s arm.
I guess I just don’t see the bar for getting drafted into the NFL as being very high.
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Good points. NFL draft picks are very valuable. Teams don’t want to waste it on a potential 3rd string qb. You can sign one of those guys off the wire.
I remember when Coach Carr said that Navarre would be playing on Sundays. I laughed although Navarre did get to stink it up in one game if I recall while at Arizona.
Speight is better than Navarre but both guys have one thing in common, they aren’t very good passers. What makes Brady great is his accuracy. You can throw the ball thru a wall but that isn’t nearly as important as being accurate. I will give Speight one thing when talking about throwing the ball, he tends to make the right read which is half the battle.
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CJ Beathard got drafted in the 3rd round. Speight had far better numbers already.
Production is certainly not everything but again — Speight’s not far off being a draftpick already.
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Don’t move the goalposts. We’re talking about leaving EARLY for the draft (i.e. after this season). I haven’t said that Speight won’t be drafted at all, even after his fifth year. But QBs who enter the draft early are typically All-American/Heisman Trophy level players. That ain’t Speight, and it’s not going to be.
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Probably not. But I think there’s a chance of it because there’s a long history of well-coached game-manager types who win big gettting drafted too high in the NFL. If Michigan has a great year, Speight stays healthy, they keep winning the Heisman buzz will get there. Harbaugh was trying to build it last year already.
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Again, we’re not talking about getting drafted ever, or getting drafted too high. We’re talking about leaving EARLY for the NFL. Speight won’t, and there won’t even be buzz about it among sensible people once the season is over. Michigan has sent a lot of QBs to the NFL, including some who’ve made it as starters. None of them entered the draft early or were even a serious candidate to. Speight is not going to be rising above those guys.
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Yes – your point about the bar being higher for early entry candidates is well taken.
Here are a few possible reasons that Speight wouldn’t necessarily have to throw for 3700 yards and 30 TDs to decide to go pro.
1. He’s older than your typical RS JR
2. He could be near his ceiling as some argue above. After 3 years of Harbaugh coaching he may not feel he needs a 4th.
3. People who are “not ready” go pro do so every year. We agree Speight is draftable already or will be.
4. He could see Peters coming and get while the gettin’s good.
5. Speight’s played with Beathard and Rudock and he’s likely better than either.
6. Michigan could win a national title this year (I know you don’t think they will and neither do I but they could.) and those QBs tend to get branded as “winners” and some people in the NFL buy into that stuff. AJ McCarron and Greg McElroy got drafted.
In short – the decisions of Henne or Brady or Henson don’t really matter for Speight. He could have any number of reasons to go pro without being considered a 1st or 2nd round draftpick. It could just be a matter of not having much to gain – a pragmatic, logical, and practical decision for a pragmatic, logical, and practical dude.
Again – I’m not saying it’s likely just that it’s possible and perhaps even reasonable if you take an optimistic outlook on Speight and the team.
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I’m mostly with michy on this one.
While I am a fan of Speight and have been since his commitment, I see very little to think that he has enough arm to be a kid the NFL wants early. I can see him getting drafted upon graduation because somebody sees a trained up technician with a lot of starts in a pro style system. But in truth, I don’t think he’s going to get there because I don’t think he’s going to get all of those starts going forward.
I worry about his shoulder and his ability to hit the deep ball.
Somebody said recently, somewhere, that the downfield shot is the constraint play in Harbaugh’s system. I thought that through for a minute and decided that that is probably the case. O’Korn, in his brief run looked ….. unsure and inaccurate. Maybe he can get his inner gunslinger back, but I’m thinking … no. The guy that looks to me like he can best hit the downfield shot is Peters. I believe that the instant he demonstrates command of the offense, he’s going to shove Speight to the bench.
One thing in Speight’s favor is the four wide thing, which I believe to be real. That and the huge receivers, I think, give our boy Speight a shot at staying on the field. Even in high school, he showed some ability to throw guys open. If we go to a controlled passing game with quick drops and reads, Speight could do some damage throwing to our batch of really big receivers with huge catching radii. I think in that scenario he has a real shot at staying ahead of Peters in terms of command as well.
Clearly, I’m flaky on this one.
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Zero chance that Speight goes to the NFL early. Zero point zero zero. He simply isn’t that good, and never will be, all the Harbaughing in the world notwithstanding. And he certainly isn’t going to be leaving early with any hope of being drafted if he’s worried about not even being the best QB on the team.
That’s just as much fantasy as it was when people were saying it about Gardner.
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LOL. There’s not a 0.00 percent chance of anything happening. Lots and lots of guys enter the NFL early, many of whom don’t get drafted. We’ve seen it happen a few times at Michigan, and we’ve seen guys like J.T. Floyd – who was not a good CB – flirt with trying to leave early. I’m not saying it will happen, but the chances are above 0.00.
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Give us the list of QBs with numbers like Speight’s who have entered the NFL draft early in the last 10 years.
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I don’t have the time or inclination to do that research for you, but thanks for asking.
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Can you name ANY? Even 2 or 3, to prove that it’s even remotely likely? Or compare the numbers of guys who have left early to Speight’s. See how that works out.
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It just happened this year with Virginia Tech’s QB. No, I’m not comparing numbers. See my above comment.
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Jerod Evans had far better numbers last year than anything Speight has shown, and he also had over 800 yards and 12 TDs on the ground, sonething Speight will never do, no matter how much coaching he gets.
If that’s the best example you have, I’ll stick with zero point zero zero for Speight leaving early.
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give me a list of 20 QBs with Speights numbers who HAVEN’T!
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sure but probably 0.004 at least.
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I disagree. I think Speight has a .0001% chance of getting drafted early to the NFL. There may be plenty of mediocre qb’s in the NFL but Speight is nothing more right now as a potential FA. I see a guy who can improve but he needs so really improve as a passer but the problem is his mechanics tell me he throws the ball like a dart and that is not going to cut at the NFL level. You have to be able to be not only accurate across the board BUT also have touch. Speight is a very good BT qb for most reasons not related to throwing.
I agree. Devin Gardner could have been a decent BT qb if Harbaugh would have gotten him early and changed his mechanics. I personally don’t think Gardner would have ever played for Harbaugh at qb if there were choices like Rudock or Speight.
For the record, I like Speight because he may be unorthodox but somehow he can deliver the ball and all of his negatives are offset by his moxie. Could Peters eventually supplant him at qb as he improves and be better? Absolutely but until that time I support Speight and want him to succeed.
I am on record for saying Higdon will get way more than 400 yards this year rushing. Not because he is an all American but plenty of carries are available at UM will have a rotation at the top 2 spots. I will also go on the record as predicting Speight will be the starter for the next 2 seasons unless injured and WILL NOT be drafted in the NFL. Only a FA. His throwing will turn off every team in the NFL. In fact, his mechanics tell me that he will always have the same problems going forward. Did Gardner get better throwing ball over the course of his career? How about Denard Robinson?
Very rarely happens. Sorry for the long post.
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Rudock got drafted in the 6th round. Speight’s Soph numbers were nearly identical to Rudock’s Senior year.
Speight will continue to improve.
For the record, I don’t think it’s LIKELY that Speight will leave but I would put the chances at closer to 10% than 0%.
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Sure would be nice to be able to see some practices.
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You get to in the spring.
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Who would have thought a post about a QB would get so many comments. Thunder you should put the 3rd string QB in the top 20 every year like the TTB version of Steven A Smith / Drew Sharpe / whoever that dude is on the radio now in the Detroit metro area.
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The Ty Isaac post was the best; and I called it soon after Thunder shared!
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But they were mostly downward, starting in East Lansing. What improvements came after October? None? I hope I’m wrong…
The injury happened at the very end of Iowa; he was awful after the 1Q, long before that hit
“Things are going to go up and down from game to game and will generally go down when the competition gets tougher. The point is the general trajectory from his RS Freshman year was massive improvement.
It does also depend on how you view the injury”
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