Chase Winovich (image via MWolverine)
Name: Chase Winovich
Height: 6’3″
Weight: 245 lbs.
High school: Jefferson Hills (PA) Thomas Jefferson
Position: Defensive end
Class: Redshirt sophomore
Jersey number: #15
Last year: I ranked Winovich #49 and said he would be a backup F-back (LINK). He played in six games and made 2 tackles.
For only being a redshirt sophomore, Winovich has had somewhat of a meandering career so far. He started off as a linebacker, but then he made a questionable move to tight end by spring 2015. I heard a lot of positive things about him in the spring and leading up to August, but then he barely played. He saw some special teams snaps and made a couple tackles, but never broke out in any way. Lost in the shuffle of tight ends, he moved back to defensive end in the spring.
Now in his third year on campus, Winovich is also on his third position. In the open practice at Ford Field this spring, he played a lot at weakside end. He’s not very big and he’s not very fast, but he’s very tenacious and caused a couple kerfuffles that I saw. At the very least, he can play some and piss off opponents. Taco Charlton is supposed to be the weakside end, and Michigan has a couple other unproven options, too. I think Winovich might end up as a Brennen Beyer type who never really lights the world on fire, but does his job with enough effectiveness to be a potent backup or spot starter. I think Don Brown could also move him around to a few different spots and use his quickness in certain blitz packages.
Prediction: Backup weakside end
You need to login in order to vote
I’m surprised he’s higher than Furbush, yet the write up is a bit down
*do I sound like Lanknows?
You need to login in order to vote
Not everybody gets this summary, “At the very least, he can play some and piss off opponents”.
Nope on Lanknows, but ask again after a few more paragraphs. (JK,JK)
You need to login in order to vote
No.
OK, a little.
You need to login in order to vote
You ranked him as #49 last year, not #15. Must have been thinking about his jersey # when you wrote that…
You need to login in order to vote
Yeah, I did. Thanks for the correction.
You need to login in order to vote
I think you’re underselling him both in rank and the narrative. This seems like one of those situations where it’s worth buying into the spring game and practice buzz.
Charlton isn’t a slam-dunk at WDE and if a couple injuries strike or the transition isn’t seamless could be back at SDE. Winovich was praised for his athleticism as a recruit (and as an LB/TE moving to TE he should be fine in that regard). Brown likes speed off the edge. Harbaugh likes him as a player. etc.
He may not be a starter (I would guess Charlton works out fine at WDE) but it wouldn’t surprise me if he gets more snaps than guys like Hurst, Mone, Bush. While he’s not yet a proven player, I view him as in the same group as guys like Clark and Hurst who will rotate in frequently. Michigan is short on edge players and Winovich seems to be ahead of the pack at a position of need.
If the projections about Charlton moving to WDE don’t come to fruition, Winovich becomes a critical player (top 15-20) rank. If they do, he’s still going to play a key rotation role, situationally if nothing else (top 25-30) rank. You do have to acknowledge that (like Wheatley, Hill, and a few others) he hasn’t done it yet in games, and could be beat out by someone else. Still I would put him at least 5 spots higher than this.
If he doesn’t pan out, Michigan will rely on freshman or position changes – and that’s not going to be true of a lot of the guys ahead of him on this list.
You need to login in order to vote
I don’t understand the downplaying of Charlton at all, and you’ve been doing it pretty consistently. He’s going to play. A lot. And Michigan has enough strongside ends/3-techs who are going to play. A lot. The only thing that’s going to prevent Charlton from playing a crap-ton at WDE is injuries, either to him or to strongside ends that would cause him to move.
You need to login in order to vote
It’s because a) he hasn’t done it b) he’s well outside the typical physical profile for a WDE.
Neither precludes him from succeeding, but this isn’t the slam dunk people are making it out to be. Same goes for Peppers to LB. Until they do it, we don’t know. Jake Ryan never looked as good as an MLB as he did an OLB.
I don’t doubt that Charlton is going to play. I’m questioning where those snaps will actually come postion-wise.
Even if Charlton works out perfectly at WDE, he still need a backup who will see a lot of snaps.
You need to login in order to vote
If Charlton was going to be a pure WDE I don’t think he would have spent most of spring at SDE.
You need to login in order to vote
…except he’s not “well outside the physical profile for a WDE.” He’s 6’6″, 272 lbs. Jadeveon Clowney was 6’5″, 266 lbs. Frank Clark was 6’2″, 273 lbs. Brandon Graham was 6’2″, 263 lbs. Tim Jamison was 6’3″, 263 lbs. LaMarr Woodley was 6’2″, 269 lbs.
I think you’re very caught up in how he “looks”, but you’re not really basing it on how he plays and how others have looked. While he’s 6’6″ (taller than most other Michigan WDEs over the years), he’s right in the same weight range as guys who were 3 or 4″ shorter than him. He’s lighter than Frank Clark, and 3-9 lbs. heavier than several other guys over the past ten years. But interestingly, you’re insisting he’s an SDE – a more physical position – when he’s the same weight as so many other WDE’s while being 3 or 4″ taller.
BTW, Charlton himself has even talked about playing weakside end. And one of his issues has always been leverage/technique, which would be more of an issue at SDE than WDE, where he’ll be one-on-one with offensive tackles. I’m not saying he won’t play any SDE, but we have a logjam at NT, 3-tech, and SDE…and a void at WDE. It doesn’t make much sense to expect Michigan to maintain a logjam everywhere else while counting on Winovich, Jones, Johnson, or freshmen to play WDE.
“Here, Rashan Gary, you stand on the sideline while we put Charlton in ahead of you and then let Reuben Jones play WDE.” That’s…unlikely.
You need to login in order to vote
Clark came in at 220. By the time he was 270 he was on the opposite side from 255lb Beyer. Charlton weighed 250 in HS.
Typically, bigger players are slower than faster players. Typically, you want faster players at WDE.
I’m ‘insisting’ he’s a SDE because that’s what he’s been for 3 years and was in the spring. I’m saying he’s changing positions, because he is.
I’m don’t think I’m saying anything that’s remotely controversial here. Charlton is moving to WDE because that’s where M needs him, not necessarily because that’s where he fits best.
I’m not saying it can’t work. I just wanting to see it before I believe it. Most others are sure it will work out. I am not SURE yet. But you know what – I think it will work too!
But it might not. And last year we lost 4 DLmen to injury. If we lose even 1 or 2 this year, that could mean Charlton is back to SDE. Let’s say that Wormley and Godin go down:
NT: Glasgow/Mone
3T: Hurst/?
SDE: Gary/Marshall
Put Charlton in that mix and bump Gary inside and you’re probably fine. Otherwise you’re using guys like Pallante, Dwumfur, or changing people’s position.
In other words, it does make sense to ‘maintain a logjam’ because when you are talking about a 7-player rotation across 3 and a half positions, it’s likely that there will be an injury at some point. To address that Michigan needs flexibility. Michigan needs guys like Hurst that can flex between NT and DT. Michigan needs guys like Wormley and Godin who can flex between DT and SDE. And yeah, Michigan needs a guy who can flex between SDE and WDE too. That’s Charlton.
Nobody is doubting Charlton will play at WDE. But what the lineup looks like in October and November is unknown. Brown hasn’t shown his cards, injuries haven’t struck, etc.
You need to login in order to vote
I don’t know what your point is about Clark/Beyer. Clark was a WDE at 273 lbs. He was a WDE for his entire career. Beyer was the SDE. Beyer doesn’t really have anything to do with the idea that Charlton’s outside the norm for a WDE.
You need to login in order to vote
Those guys all had NFL talent. Charlton might too. We haven’t seen him show it consistently yet, and a new position introduces an unknown.
Last year Durkin chose to play converted LBs on the edge instead of bumping Charlton out. Michigan also had a logjam of DL talent last year when Ojemudia went down. Charlton didn’t go in, RJS and Ross did. [And if you want to bring up the BUCK LB thing – Woodley and Jamison are classified as OLBs most places and were considered Rush LBs when they were at Michigan just like James Hall and others. This is semantics.]
You need to login in order to vote
I’m not sure what your point is. Tim Jamison went undrafted and has played a bit in the NFL. Taco Charlton is the #12 DE on NFL Draft Scout, and he’s very highly rated by PFF. Maybe he won’t get drafted, but in my opinion, at the very worst, he can go undrafted like Tim Jamison. I realize Durkin played other guys at Buck linebacker, but Charlton himself has said Durkin used him as basically a defensive tackle last year and now he’s moving to weakside end.
Injuries change everything. I think it’s kind of pointless to say “Well, if two people get injured, then Charlton might have to play SDE so therefore he’s not really a WDE.” If three people get injured, he might have to play 3-tech. If two safeties get injured, Jabrill Peppers might have to play free safety. If two offensive tackles get hurt, David Dawson might have to play tackle. You seem to be saying that he should be a strongside end in case two guys get hurt at SDE just so he can be fully ready. The two positions aren’t that different.
We’ve talked about this before, and you get your best talent on the field. The guys who WILL play this year are (in no order):
Gary
Charlton
Wormley
Mone
Glasgow
Godin
Hurst
Charlton is the guy who fits best at WDE. Otherwise, you’re burying a guy on the depth chart who shouldn’t be buried in favor of guys who couldn’t cut it to see the field yet. If size/fit meant everything, Noah Furbush would be starting at SAM linebacker instead of Jabrill Peppers. Peppers is “outside the norm” of SAM linebackers, but he has the physical talent to play there. Jeremy Clark is “outside the norm” as a 6’4″ corner, but he did well at CB last year.
You need to login in order to vote
Some of the guys you mentioned were SDEs for part of their careers at least.
Beyer was an OLB and then a WDE. The year they both started the scheme changed such that calling either a WDE or SDE was sort of beside the point. But Clark was the bigger player and the guy who fits the physical profile of an SDE more than Beyer. Maybe you are right that the roles were flipped vs the physical profiles, but that’s a technicality in that scheme where both DEs had similar roles. They were both WDEs the year before. Clark added more weight.
Jamison and Graham also played on the same line in 2008, backed by Roh and VanBergen who both ended up SDEs.
Point here is that it’s common for WDE to bulk up with age and then move to SDE. It’s not common for SDEs to shift down to WDE.
Again, none of this precludes Charlton from making the switch successfully. But it’s a legitimate question.
You need to login in order to vote
Durkin is an excellent coach. He probably used him as DT-like player because he was good in that role. Spring didn’t seem to indicate any sort of change. Again, I don’t doubt he’ll play at WDE part of (if not most of) the time, but it may be overstated by pundits right now how much and how effectively.
I don’t agree that it’s pointless to consider injuries. That seems like one of the criteria in how important a guy is to his team, and how much he’ll be missed if he’s gone. Injuries happen every year – it’s why depth matters. It’s why players work at multiple positions.
In your listing of players that WILL play, I think you forgot Winovich.
You’re arguing about why moving to Charlton to WDE is a good idea. Nobody is arguing with that. I’m saying it’s not a slam dunk that said good idea works out.
The Peppers/SAM thing isn’t particularly relevant because Brown’s scheme isn’t using the kind of SAMs that we had when Jake Ryan was manning the position. Anyway, Peppers working out there is an open question.
Clark is a good example to counter your get-the-best-players-on-the-field argument. Michigan would probably benefit more from having a 3rd veteran safety than a 3rd veteran CB (given Peppers, Long, etc.) Clark IS a good example of an atypical physical profile for a position.
People had doubts about Clark at CB too. They have doubts about Poggi and Hill at FB and Shallman at RB. Some of these pan out some don’t. Asking the question is legitimate.
I actually thought they might put Gary at WDE, even though he’s even bigger than Charlton, because he seems to have the speed of a WDE.
You need to login in order to vote
Dang, chalk up another thread blown up by everyone’s favorite contributor. Don’t take the bait Thunder, the guy will outlast anyone.
Looking forward to seeing Winovich. He made some waves pretty quickly for a guy making a big position switch. Got hype from Webb for abusing Newsome repeatedly in spring practices, but that accomplishment is devalued a bit after watching Newsome in the spring scrimmage. I like the fact that Wino has good quickness to match his aggressiveness. I remember loving his HS film.
You need to login in order to vote
Another thing on Winovich… he is the type of player who draws retaliation flags. There were several plays in the spring practice where he took shots at OL right at the whistle. Kalis looked like he wanted to pummel him. Opponents will hate him if he becomes a major contributor.
You need to login in order to vote
And I like that. A role player who can piss off a starter, drawing a flag wins the battle!
You need to login in order to vote