Morning Roundup: February 1, 2020

Morning Roundup: February 1, 2020


February 1, 2020
Cesar Ruiz

This Lance Zierlein mock draft has Cesar Ruiz going #23 overall to the Patriots (LINK).

Hit the jump for more.

This is old news, but Michigan completed its 2022 schedule with a home game against UConn. Of course, Stewart Mandel took it as an opportunity to take a shot at Michigan, because Mandel is a Northwestern grad and doesn’t like getting beaten by Michigan almost every time they play.

The Patriots hired former Michigan assistant Jedd Fisch (LINK).

Supposedly, the Big Ten is pursuing legislation that would allow immediate eligibility ONE time for any player in all sports (LINK). Of course, that’s the rule Jim Harbaugh was proposing when Cincinnati fans (and others) were blasting him for allegedly blocking James Hudson’s immediate eligibility.

As a Detroit Tigers fan since birth, I was sad to see that one of my all-time favorite Tigers (though he’s been gone for several years) is retiring:

21 comments

  1. Avatar
    Comments: 1331
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    WindyCityBlue
    Feb 01, 2020 at 8:21 PM

    Taking any C/OG in the first round is dumb. Serious overspending. And it’s not as if Ruiz is a generational talent or anything close.

    • Thunder
      Comments: 3541
      Joined: 7/13/2015
      Feb 01, 2020 at 8:41 PM

      I’m okay with taking a center or guard late in the first round if you’re already a solid team and need to shore up your offensive line. But I think #23 is too high for Ruiz in this year’s draft.

      • Avatar
        Comments: 1331
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        WindyCityBlue
        Feb 02, 2020 at 9:12 AM

        Nope. You don’t waste a first round pick on a guy you know is going to be a backup, and rarely play. You don’t rotate your Oline during normal play, so a backup C/OG that you draft to shore up your depth is going to be on the sidelines except in a blowout or in case of injury. You can get a guy to do that much lower in the draft. Either draft someone who will contribute even if they don’t start, like a third CB, or a situational pass rusher, or if you’re really flush, trade the pick and stock up on 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders.

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5873
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          Feb 02, 2020 at 3:19 PM

          Agree with this. Gotta get production from your 1st rounders.

          Disagree that you can’t get the production from interior OL. I think that’s antiquated thinking. Current salaries reflect that value of interior linemen. To wit, there are 4 RBs with cap hits over 10M this year compared to 19 interior OLmen.

          Average salaries point to high value for interior OL as well. I have another comment caught in ‘moderation’ to this point.

          • Avatar
            Comments: 1331
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            WindyCityBlue
            Feb 02, 2020 at 6:27 PM

            Do they reflect value of the position or longevity? What were the average years of experience for those 4 RBs and 19 interior OLs?

            And frankly, it’s almost always overspending to draft RBs in the first round, too. They aren’t valuable enough either, and you can get ones as good as you need later. Add to that, the higher value OTs that are worth drafting in the first round can often be slid inside if they don’t work out as tackles at the next level, just like in college. It rarely if ever works the other way.

            • Thunder
              Comments: 3541
              Joined: 7/13/2015
              Feb 02, 2020 at 7:11 PM

              I think the discussion is sort of ignoring a concept that’s pretty important. Somebody HAS to be drafted in the 1st round. We have these discussions and people are like, “You don’t draft guards or centers or tight ends or running backs or punters or kickers or fullbacks or punt returners or kickers or long snappers in the first round.”

              Okay, I’m buying in.

              So how crappy is the 6th nickel corner that gets drafted in the 1st round? How about the 14th-best WR that goes #29 in 1st round? I’m exaggerating, of course, but the point still stands. You still end up paying 1st round money to SOMEONE.

              Five such players were drafted in the 1st round in 2019. If you drop those guys out of the 1st round and move the first five picks of the 2nd round into the 1st round, you end up with 6 offensive tackles going in the 1st round (including Jawaan Taylor and Greg Little, who were 2nd rounders in reality). So at some point, you’re going to be reaching if you take all those options off the table.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5873
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                Feb 02, 2020 at 7:33 PM

                I think a lot more QBs should be going in Round 1. Some aren’t going to do anything but the ones that do are going to bring enormous value. Worth the risk. And that’s not even considering the ones that will stick with the franchise all career because that’s home.

                Beyond that – I don’t think it’s hard to find 30 quality starters in the draft. Those are the guys who should go in Round 1.

                • Thunder
                  Comments: 3541
                  Joined: 7/13/2015
                  Feb 02, 2020 at 8:04 PM

                  A lot more QBs? In 2019 the next QB taken after the 1st round was 2nd rounder Drew Lock, and then…3rd round compensatory selection Will Grier. If you want to be paying Will Grier 1st round money, go for it. I would love to be a GM in a league with you.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5873
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Feb 02, 2020 at 8:24 PM

                  Ha. Well the feeling is mutual Mr. RB’s Matter.

                  My current view may be influenced by one of the SB starters being a second round pick and the NFL MVP being an just barely not one. Also my alma mater has a pretty prominent QB taken way after round 1.

                  As for 2019 picks, time will tell, but Drew Lock might be a good one still.

                  As an aside if you google Drew Lock you get some interesting choices under the PEOPLE ALSO ASK section:

                  Is Drew Lock related to Andrew Lock?

                  The people demand answers.

              • Avatar
                Comments: 1331
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                WindyCityBlue
                Feb 03, 2020 at 6:36 AM

                If you have a high pick in the first round, you draft one of four positions: Franchise QB, stud LT, lockdown CB or elite pass rusher. If you’re set at all of those spots (which hardly anyone is), or if no one available meets your needs, you trade the pick or trade down, and stock up on 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks that you use on LB, S, WR, OG/C, and RB, and increase your chances of getting a quality guy at those positions who will stick. If you have a lower 1st round pick, indulge yourself, but when in doubt, go for defense.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5873
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Feb 03, 2020 at 12:19 PM

                  I tend to agree with this but if you can get a sure-fire player like Devin Bush or Saquan Barkley or Steve Hutchinson I think it’s not a bad idea to grab them in the middle of round 1. Depending on who else is available of course.

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 1331
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  WindyCityBlue
                  Feb 04, 2020 at 6:43 AM

                  Well, I question whether there is such a thing as a “sure-fire” player, except in hindsight. At best, they are fairly rare. But as far as RBs go, the issue is not so much that you can’t GET a great one by picking in the upper part of the first round, it’s that in the present day NFL, you don’t NEED a great one to be consistently successful. In fact, you probably don’t want to use your running game as much as you need to to take full advantage of a guy like that. Good ones are all you need, and using a high first round pick is overspending. But NFL GMs fall into the trap of wanting to make picks that will excite a fan base that looks at RBs as being as important as they are in college (which they aren’t in the NFL). A good rule of thumb is that your fanbase should be pleased by your RB pick, but not excited. If they’re excited, you’ve overspent.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5873
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Feb 04, 2020 at 10:57 AM

                  Agree. Though I’m not sure you need a good RB at all. Depending on your definition of good. Every RB that is in the NFL is an elite athlete but it’s hard to differentiate from the pack.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5873
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Feb 02, 2020 at 8:01 PM

              I maybe missing your point but agree that OG rarely shift to OT and that RB careers are short.

              I don’t think either point is particularly relevant to the relative positional value in the draft.

              Positions like DL and RB rotate a lot while a high level OL will stay in all game. So it makes sense to pay an OG more than a DT even if the OG position is a little less important.

              If you have quibbles with the salary data I would suggest flipping the question – what is the evidence that interior linemen is NOT worth it.

              In the case of RB the position is less important and there is more rotation so it’s even harder to get value in Round 1. This

              • Avatar
                Comments: 1331
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                WindyCityBlue
                Feb 03, 2020 at 8:32 AM

                I asked a question about the salary data, which you dodged. What were the years of experience for the 4 RBs and 19OLs you cited? If you don’t know that, you have no basis for concluding that any salary difference is based on the value of the position, as opposed to longevity. Compare apples to apples, or your claim is meaningless.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5873
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Feb 03, 2020 at 12:08 PM

                  @WCB –

                  You made a claim with no evidence that I countered with evidence – average salary and top end salary.

                  I encourage you to look up apples to apples comparison to defend your position if that’s what you want to do. Google dot com.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5873
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Feb 03, 2020 at 12:23 PM

                  You make a solid point that the salary data doesn’t control for longevity. If you want to prove that explains the differences you are welcome to do so. Otherwise it’s just more speculation on your part.

      • Avatar
        Comments: 1251
        Joined: 8/13/2015
        Roanman
        Feb 03, 2020 at 5:55 PM

        “I think #23 is too high for Ruiz in this year’s draft.”

        Because?

        A. There are better guys who will be available at #23 in this years draft.

        Or

        B. There will be better interior linemen available at #23 in this years draft.

        C. Both

        And … if you are in the market for an interior lineman regardless of round, what order are you interested in Bredeson, Onwenu Ruiz?

        That’s a tough choice for me. Barring injury, I can see them all lasting a long time playing at a plus level. I have only the slightest doubt about Onwenu as I can see him getting too heavy to play over time.

        • Avatar
          Comments: 1251
          Joined: 8/13/2015
          Roanman
          Feb 03, 2020 at 6:14 PM

          As an aside, I’m getting ads on Touch The Banner for Buckeye gear today.

          So much for the brilliance of advertising algos.

        • Thunder
          Comments: 3541
          Joined: 7/13/2015
          Feb 03, 2020 at 6:39 PM

          My answer to that is A, because I think this is a very good draft overall.

          If I’m looking for interior linemen, I’m going with Ruiz, Bredeson, then Onwenu.

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5873
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      Lanknows
      Feb 02, 2020 at 2:38 PM

      If salary equates at all to worth your thinking is outdated. Interior linemen average $3.5M – more than most positions and double RBs.

      https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

      You need your first round pick to be a starter to get value. *With the exception of QB because QB is so damn valuable. It’s all about how much production you get on the rookie deal before free agency. A draft pick does you no good sitting on the bench when the clock is ticking on free agency.

      I think the big question with Ruiz is how ready he is to play at a high level on his rookie deal. He is 2 or 3 years younger than some other options. His long-term upside is not the question – it may be higher than any other interior linemen, but he is very very young to be an instant contributor.

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