Morning Roundup: May 22, 2019

Morning Roundup: May 22, 2019


May 22, 2019
Benjamin St-Juste

Former Michigan cornerback Benjamin St-Juste is transferring to Minnesota (LINK).

How much will Michigan’s tight ends be used this year (LINK)?

LeBron James – notorious for being an OSU fan – endorses Juwan Howard as the next Michigan basketball coach (LINK). I like James, but I’m not sure how to feel about that.

27 comments

  1. Lanknows
    Comments: 4640
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    May 22, 2019 at 9:43 AM

    You should feel great about James’ endorsement. One of the most famous athletes/people in the country is raving about our (presumed) coach — that’s good for prestige, recruiting, etc.

    • Thunder
      Comments: 2951
      Joined: 7/13/2015
      May 22, 2019 at 9:50 AM

      That’s good…but is he endorsing him because he doesn’t think Howard will be successful? “Oh, yeah, Michigan get that guy to be your coach…PLEASE!!! …he’ll drive your program into the ground!”

      • Lanknows
        Comments: 4640
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        Lanknows
        May 22, 2019 at 10:16 AM

        No. Lebron and JH were teammates for years. His connections to OSU are weak.

      • Avatar
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        WindyCityBlue
        May 22, 2019 at 1:51 PM

        I don’t think James KNOWS any more about what kind of college coach Howard will make than anyone else. He knows the man, but like everyone else, he is going off zero data points on Howard’s ability to run the whole show. He has an opinion, just like everyone, but coaching involves such a complex skill set (which is different in college than in the pros), that projections and predictions about future performance are little better than guesses.

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 4640
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          May 22, 2019 at 5:11 PM

          Obviously no one can predict the future but it’s an exaggeration to say zero data points. He’s not hiring a botanist from Belize.

          • Avatar
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            WindyCityBlue
            May 22, 2019 at 8:22 PM

            What data points do we have on Howard’s performance as a head college basketball coach?

          • Lanknows
            Comments: 4640
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            Lanknows
            May 22, 2019 at 11:57 PM

            What data points would we have on Greg Popovich as a Big Ten head coach? What data points would we have on Brad Stevens as a head coach at Michigan? What data points would we have for Phil Jackson coaching in 2019?

            • Avatar
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              WindyCityBlue
              May 23, 2019 at 8:15 AM

              The fact that we have no data points for college head coaching on those guys either is irrelevant, as you are well aware. Why are you wasting your time and mine with such a silly and transparent diversion?

              You said it was an exaggeration to say that we had zero data points on Howard as a college head coach. I challenged you to show us the data points. You failed, because there are NONE. Why not just admit I was 100% right instead of going back and forth another 10 times with more irrelevant diversions,

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 4640
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 23, 2019 at 12:30 PM

                Not what I said. Another strawman. Howard has no college HC experience and everyone knows that already.

                But there are other “data points on Howard’s ability to run the whole show” beyond that – you can read Howard’s resume. It’s a lot stronger than mine, for example, had I applied for the job. Now that’s zero data points…

                Erik Spoelstra and Phil Jackson also don’t have any college head coaching experience so your comical definition of data points would apply to them as well.

                Which is funny if you ask me.

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 1046
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                  WindyCityBlue
                  May 23, 2019 at 3:16 PM

                  I said:
                  “he is going off zero data points on Howard’s ability to run the whole show.”

                  To he is going off zero data points on Howard’s ability to run the whole show.

                  it’s an exaggeration to say zero data points. “

                  To which you replied:

                  “it’s an exaggeration to say zero data points.”

                  No, it’s exactly accurate to say we have zero data points on Howard’s performance as a head college coach.
                  Which is what you knew I meant, unless you’re being deliberately obtuse. That’s what “running the whole show” means, dude.

                  And your silly diversion about Phil Jackson is still falling flat. This isn’t about whether lack of data points necessarily means Howard won’t be a good coach. Duh. It’s about what James’ opinion (and everyone else’s is based on. Please stop wasting bandwidth pretending you don’t have a clue about that.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 4640
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 23, 2019 at 3:50 PM

                  No – it’s not what it means. You don’t have to have done the job before to be qualified to do a job. There are not “zero data points”.

      • Avatar
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        WindyCityBlue
        May 22, 2019 at 3:32 PM

        Guess we’ll all find out.

    • UM_1973
      Comments: 86
      Joined: 10/14/2015
      UM_1973
      May 23, 2019 at 2:11 PM

      I think Lebron’s endorsement is no different from Jalen’s endorsement. It is just friends of Juwan being happy that he landed the job. No indication whether he will do a good job or not, Personally, I think this is the least risky hire for Michigan.

  2. Lanknows
    Comments: 4640
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    May 22, 2019 at 10:09 AM

    Nobody at Michigan seems to have much to say about St.Juste. A couple years ago during the Ondre Pipkins Debates – when Ondre was disparaged by many who had previously cheered him on – Thunder argued it didn’t matter because nobody cared. I think that point got proven correct. Though Ondre and his family probably disagree.

    Another thing that got proven correct is the unpopular opinion that the medical designation is a farce – thinly veiled cover for cutting players who don’t perform. This was a time when many Michigan fans (though certainly not all) liked to hold the program to a higher ethical standard than say Alabama. But nah.

    I would really like to see some NCAA reform in this regard so that guys like Pipkins and St.Juste don’t have to jump through hoops to play football and teams don’t have to skirt around the issue of cutting/releasing players from the roster. If teams are going to do this, then just grant them a release with an option to stay in school, without the dubious ‘medical’.

    In this proffesionalized era of college football, the cap on scholarships should be focused on number of recruits not rosters, so that there is incentive to keep people in the program instead of incentive to run them off to open up scholarship. Or maybe they should just have a salary cap…

    • Avatar
      Comments: 1046
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      WindyCityBlue
      May 22, 2019 at 1:16 PM

      How exactly was it “proven correct” that the medical designation is “a farce”? Has it been proven that every time someone is medically disqualified that it was definitely a case of a doctor lying about their condition under pressure from the coaching staff? Has it been “proven” that every team doctor in the country is that unethical?

      And even if teams are trying to make scholarship space by falsely claiming that a player’s condition makes it dangerous to let him on the field, why in the world would they do it with players who were actually capable of contributing? There are plenty of scholarship players now, and were on Pipkins team, that were far less likely to ever contribute. Why aren’t any of them getting broomed?

      • Lanknows
        Comments: 4640
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        Lanknows
        May 22, 2019 at 5:33 PM

        You really want to argue this?

        Multiple players say they were pushed out against their will and proceed to play elsewhere without issue. Meanwhile Mo Hurst tumbles in the NFL draft because of a life-threatening health issue and players like Winovich and Gary are putting off surgeries.

        Doctors lying? How would you or I know? I have no clue what the doctors said — medically disqualified from football, medically disqualified from the team, or a some sort of risk assessment that is carefully communicated. I don’t really care to get into the weeds to parse what the doctors are saying because I don’t know and you don’t know and it doesn’t matter anyway because the outcome is what it is — guys are getting kicked off the team against their will under the guise of a medical issue severe enough to end their careers. Risk? Sure — playing football is a risk.

        There are a million possible reasons why but it’s obvious that injured upperclassmen like Pipkins and St.Juste were not productive and their hoped-for potential was not going to be realized as Michigan football players. The program has not been shy about sharing their disgust at injured players who aren’t on the practice field. DJ Durkin worked for Harbaugh at multiple places and his issues are well documented.

        There’s direct evidence and circumstantial evidence, and a lack of counter-evidence.

        • Avatar
          Comments: 1046
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          WindyCityBlue
          May 22, 2019 at 8:36 PM

          How is the fact that injured players didn’t want to give up on their playing career proof that the medical designation is “a farce”? Of COURSE they don’t. Of COURSE they’re willing to take what an objective medical evaluator would regard as unjustifiable risk. Is that really your argument? Seriously?

          And yes, you have absolutely no idea in the world what doctors said, or if they were lying, so where is your evidence that their evaluation is a “farce” every time? Nowhere.

          You’re also arguing that on the one hand, the team thinks that some players are dogging it and not playing tough through minor dingers, and wants players out on the field, regardless of their injuries, and on the other that the team is OVERstating the injuries to guys like Pipkins and St. Juste, and keeping them off the field when they could be playing. Do you know how silly you look arguing two exactly opposite things?

          And you conspicuously dodged my question: If the team is trying to open up scholarships by brooming players, why in the world would they do it to players who are actually capable of contributing, instead of the many upperclassmen on scholarship who have no hope of ever seeing meaningful playing time?

          • Lanknows
            Comments: 4640
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            Lanknows
            May 23, 2019 at 12:12 AM

            Haha. I could have called the accusation of dodging questions. You asked 5! Why did they medical injured players instead of healthy ones is your question? Not a dodge to ignore such inanity. And then overt non-sense — OF COURSE Grant Newsome is going to risk his future health to play football.

            The players were deemed to have their college careers end due to medical reasons and then their college careers do not end. This is a fact. In Pipkins case he went on to play for many years.

            There is no evidence they are lying or that they took any real risk.

            • Avatar
              Comments: 1046
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              WindyCityBlue
              May 23, 2019 at 8:30 AM

              Your claim is that the medical designation is a “farce”. If it’s all just lies and fraud, as you maintain, they could medical healthy guys just as easily as injured ones. And please don’t tell me there have never been any non-contributors who are also injured that they could broom instead, because we both know that’s not true.

              And no, the players were not “deemed to have their college careers end”. One school deemed it too great a risk to their long-term health to allow them to play further. The fact that another team cleared them to play doesn’t mean that the original evaluation was “a farce”. Do you seriously think that a team like Texas Tech couldn’t just as easily pressure THEIR doctors to clear Pipkins even if he shouldn’t be playing? Of course they could, And would. So why do you assume that Michigan’s doctors were the lying frauds? Because Pipkins went through a year of playing without any problem? That’s your “Proof”?

              Just because someone manages to text while they’re driving and not get into an accident doesn’t mean it isn’t an incredible foolish and needlessly risky thing to do. Wouldn’t you agree?

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 4640
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 23, 2019 at 12:08 PM

                I am saying it is absurd to say someone is medically ‘retired’ from football and then they are on a different football field playing football months later. Particularly when said ‘retired’ player’s reaction is “WTF”.

                If your employer decided you were retired now as an excuse to get rid of you, you wouldn’t take it too kindly.

                I never said they were medicaling healthy players. This is your strawman.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 4640
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 23, 2019 at 12:11 PM

                You’re making guesses about risk assessments you don’t know anything about and that there’s zero evidence to substantiate.

                Pipkins played for many years without any known issue.

                • Avatar
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                  WindyCityBlue
                  May 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM

                  I’m not the one making the claim that something has been “proved”. You are, so the proof is your responsibility. All you have are your opinions at this point.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 4640
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  May 23, 2019 at 3:53 PM

                  Facts – Pipkins was asked to retire from football due to health and he kept playing and was fine. BSJ on the same track.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 4640
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                May 23, 2019 at 12:22 PM

                There is always risk. You’re assuming the football program is serving the best interest of these people — against their will. It’s possible this is true but there’s no evidence to back it up. This is just a leap of faith you are making.

                Yes, there are people who will make bad decisions, not give their children vaccines, turn down critical medical care, etc. People do dumb things sometimes.

                There are also institutions (and people who lead them) that will twist the truth so that they are better off, at the expense of what is best for the individual. People are selfish sometimes.

                A doctor can make a comprehensive evaluation and identify injuries and risks and all that. You and I don’t know the details — for good reason. You assume it is 100% up to doctors who are not coerced. I am assuming doctors make an robust assessment of risks — which is left up to the program and player to interpret. The program makes the call — apparently independent of the will of the player.

                Again, given the seriousness of some of the injuries and risks that very good players are playing through (Gary and Hurst and Gardner) and then the reaction of not very good players to being told their careers are over stands out as a reason to doubt the view you subscribe to — that the program is operating in the best interest of the athlete altruistically, without consideration of what’s best for the team’s performance (i.e., more scholarship availability for recruiting talent).

                I think you’re seeing what you want to see. I’m seeing what I don’t want to see but calling a spade a spade.

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 1046
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  WindyCityBlue
                  May 23, 2019 at 3:23 PM

                  You’re lying again. No one on Michigan’s team has been told that “their career is over”. Prove me wrong.

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