Michigan 42, Illinois 25

Michigan 42, Illinois 25


October 13, 2019
Hassan Haskins (#25, image via Saturday Tradition)

Boy, Rutgers must be really bad. I mean, Rutgers is bad. We know this. And Illinois is bad, too. But there are different levels of bad. Illinois was missing its starting quarterback (Michigan transfer Brandon Peters), and backups Matt Robinson and Isaiah Williams helped the Illini score 25 points. Meanwhile, Rutgers didn’t look like a viable FBS team in a 52-0 loss to the Wolverines.

Hit the jump for more.

I’m ready for a good Michigan offense. Michigan has had a lot of years of waiting for a good all-around offense. Some teams are bad at everything (offense and defense), and some rare teams are good at everything. Michigan has had exciting offenses in the last decade (Denard Robinson’s years, in particular), but most of the time, it has been in the middle of the pack or down near the bottom. I guess it’s odd to complain about the offense after they put up 42 points, but there were too many times when they had a chance to close out the game when they simply couldn’t do anything to keep their feet on the throat of the enemy. Those 42 points might imply that the offense was a juggernaut, but the scoring was helped by the defense blocking a punt and intercepting the ball, giving the offense the ball two times inside the 10-yard line. Without those two easy scores, that puts the game at 28-25, which is exactly how close the Illini got before Michigan pulled away late.

Jordan Glasgow had a great game. For all the complaining about Glasgow after the Rutgers game, he had a very solid performance against the Illini. On Saturday he made 11 tackles, 0.5 tackles for loss, 1 pass breakup, and the aforementioned blocked punt. I think Glasgow is a perfectly serviceable piece against a lot of teams, but I do agree that he should be replaced against more athletic teams like Ohio State down the road – provided, of course, that Michigan has more athletic pieces available. Joshua Ross and Cam McGrone are probably the two best linebacker options, but Ross has missed the last few games with an injury.

Hello, Hassan Haskins. Haskins had a coming out party against the Illini, running 12 times for 125 yards and 1 touchdown. There’s not a whole lot of wiggle there, but he breaks tackles and runs over people. I have a feeling that he had great success against Illinois in large part because Michigan’s offensive line was helping him get the edge on the regular, something he won’t be able to do on his own with his lack of speed. But if the offensive line can actually block, then his downhill running style is appreciated.

The offensive line is good!(?). Michigan had its highest rushing output (295 yards) and highest yards per carry (6.15) of the season, surpassing the 233 and 5.18 they achieved against Middle Tennessee State in the season opener. The highest marks in any other game were 141 and 3.64 against Rutgers and Iowa, respectively. I don’t actually think the offensive line is good; Illinois is just really bad.

Michigan missed its starters. Kwity Paye dressed but did not participate, Lavert Hill sat out after suffering an injury against Iowa, and Nico Collins sat out for an undisclosed reason. Paye was replaced by Mike Danna, who did fine. But Illinois had some success against Vincent Gray that would likely not have occurred with Hill out there, and the 50/50 jump ball tactic of throwing to Nico Collins was not an option.

[Insert complaint about Josh Gattis here.] It’s been discussed ad nauseum. Numbers: Shea Patterson completed 11/22 passes for 194 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions. Yes, there was wind. No, it should not have impacted Michigan that much, especially with the running game humming along. Yes, Michigan is lucky that Ronnie Bell is good at running after the catch.

No, Donovan Peoples-Jones is not going to reach his potential at Michigan. He has 12 catches for 129 yards and 2 touchdowns in his junior year. That’s an average of about 3 catches for 43 yards and 0.7 touchdowns per game in the four games he’s participated. Other 5-star receivers in that 2017 class, through six games:

  • Tee Higgins (Clemson): 24 catches, 549 yards, 3 TD
  • Jerry Jeudy (Alabama): 42 catches, 538 yards, 6 TD
  • Joseph Lewis (USC): Playing at Los Angeles Southwest College after spending six months in jail due to a felony domestic violence charge.

What does it all mean? I’m going to be shocked if Michigan can win in Happy Valley next Saturday night. Hopefully Paye, Hill, and Collins are back to full strength, which would make an upset more likely, though still a long shot.

119 comments

  1. Avatar
    Comments: 60
    Joined: 9/18/2016
    Chowman
    Oct 13, 2019 at 9:16 AM

    And the 3 ton elephant in the room: this defense still can’t defend quick slants and shallow crossing routes. Even less talented teams can periodically take advantage of that. I shutter to think what will happen when we play teams with athletic WRs.

    • 17years
      Comments: 277
      Joined: 2/6/2018
      17years
      Oct 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM

      You’re more concerned about the defense than the offense?

      • Avatar
        Comments: 60
        Joined: 9/18/2016
        Chowman
        Oct 13, 2019 at 9:44 AM

        The offense is a lost cause. They are what they are at this point of the season. Only way we can win against better teams is if we can hold them to a few scores. This team ain’t winning no shoot outs!

  2. 17years
    Comments: 277
    Joined: 2/6/2018
    17years
    Oct 13, 2019 at 9:23 AM

    I’m glad I predicted 2 RBs could get over 100 against Illinois terrible run defense! But Michigan could have gotten a lot more. Illinois is exceptionly poorly coached with tackling. Why didn’t they just keep going with the run? It was working great. Yards per carry were huge! Why stop??
    Josh Gattis is no good without a great supporting cast of coaches around him. He’s just not ready to be the chief yet. And very talented guys on the team are suffering because of it. I agree with you about DPJ never going to see all he could be. Nico Collins too. Both would probably have 400 to 500+ yds if they were with a team with a great OC. I can’t see why AJ Henning will stay committed to Michigan. There’s reason for him to run like Forrest Gump away from Michigan.
    I don’t think I’m really down on Shea Patterson like most people are. I’m down on Gattis and Ben McDaniels. It’s obvious things aren’t working well with them. Jim Harbaugh has made some good coaching hires. But most have not worked out. And he stays with them. To me, this is a serious fracture in his coaching. The one move he made where he actually let a coach go was Kevin Tolbert, to bring in Ben Herbert. I can’t see why he is not aggressive to hire only premiere coaches in every spot. When one is not working why stay with him? Watching LSU’s offense last night was great football. Joe Brady has worked out great there. I wonder if in his quieter moments, Jim Harbaugh looks at passing games like LSU’s, and knows he needs to get a lot better and choosing coaches?
    This is what we’re getting in Jim Harbaugh’s fifth year, where all players and coaches are here because of him. And I thought things would be far better than this. They are not.
    So the question is, does Michigan stay with him while he figures things out over maybe the next 10 years? And seeing his demeanor, I’m not sure he wants to figure things out. Maybe this is just who he is going to be. And if that’s the case, for the sake of the really talented players who want to make it to the pros, he needs to resign, and a coach that is fully aggressive for developing the best in the players, and for going for a National Championships, needs to be hired. There’s not a lot of men like that.
    But I can think of one.

  3. 17years
    Comments: 277
    Joined: 2/6/2018
    17years
    Oct 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM

    I commented, don’t know where it is.

    • 17years
      Comments: 277
      Joined: 2/6/2018
      17years
      Oct 13, 2019 at 2:05 PM

      Hi Thunder
      I had a long comment typed out. It never appeared. I know that happens once in a while, not of your doing.

  4. Avatar
    Comments: 1264
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    WindyCityBlue
    Oct 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM

    Harbaugh going into turtle mode in the second quarter, and on the road to boot, was really inexcusably stupid. This was a game that should have been over for all practical purposes early in the third quarter, if not by halftime, if we’d just kept our foot on the gas. Instead Harbaugh sends the message “OK guys, nothing more we need to do here…go ahead and be lazy and sloppy”, which, not surprisingly, is exactly what happened.

    Aside from coming dangerously close to actually costing us a win against a quite bad team, it forced our starters to play every minute, in what will probably be the last game of the year where our backups could have gotten some real snaps.

    And Patterson? Just not good. He had open receivers all day, and only hit 50% of them. And too often when he did hit them, he made the catch much tougher than it should have been. Illinois’ backup, redshirt freshman, QB did much better on accuracy against a much tougher defense. He wasn’t great, but he was good enough and well-prepared enough to make a game of it against a superior opponent. Why are our redshirt freshman QBs under Harbaugh never that good?

    • Avatar
      Comments: 60
      Joined: 9/18/2016
      Chowman
      Oct 13, 2019 at 9:51 AM

      Look if Patterson is the best QB on the roster than that’s on Jim and his staff, and we’re soooooooo screwed! Patterson’s a blind squirrel, and every once in a while he finds a nut, i.e. makes the right read and throws and accurate ball. Most of the time its WTF time. Its obvious at this point they’re riding Patterson all the way to the bottom. I like what McCaffrey brings to the table, as it looks to me that the offense’s energy goes up when he’s the QB. But man he needs to learn to live for the next play. That hit in WI was one of the ugliest I’ve seen in a while. As for Milton, from what little we’ve seen he’s not even as good as Patterson at reading the defense. Gotta cannon for an arm but does little good when he’s throwing it to the wrong spots.

      • Avatar
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        je93
        Oct 13, 2019 at 10:02 AM

        *two hits against Wisconsin, chowman

        McCaffery too TWO big hits. That speaks to how poorly prepared he is

        • Avatar
          Comments: 60
          Joined: 9/18/2016
          Chowman
          Oct 13, 2019 at 2:02 PM

          The 2nd was sickening. yeah the 1st was an awkward slide, but as soon as Dylan hurdled that WI defender, I knew it was not going to end well. Thought they broke his neck. The kind of hit that I don’t watch the replay.

    • Avatar
      Comments: 338
      Joined: 12/24/2016
      INTJohn
      Oct 13, 2019 at 10:04 AM

      This offense has played lazy & sloppy all season and this game was no exception.
      Stupid penalties and can’t hang on to the ball – its been going on ALL season and considerring the talent of these players it can only be indicative of an undisciplined poorly coached team……….
      Mason’s dumass antics – indicative of his Head Coach?
      Patterson had how many almost interceptions in this game? I recall 3 – 1 that might have gone for 6.
      Disappointing display at game 6 into the season & given the extremely vast talent level between the 2 teams.
      I’m moving on.
      I watched PSU vs Iowa – PSU will destroy this Michigan team.
      I watched MSU vs Wisky: Maybe Michgian has a shot against MSU but ???
      I watched ND agaisnt SoCal & at this point the ND game vs Michigan is meaningless – has no bearing on B10 standings and this late in the season? Might actually be a good game to play many backups cause it is so meaningless to B10 standing but would give backups valuble expereince at home agaisnt first rate competition…… win or lose, only value I now see to this game.

      Indiana – Hoosiers big chance to realy bust Michigan big especially considerring by this game Michigan’s season could possibly be over and being on the road Michigan won’t play well anyway.

      OSU -yeah…………..iintjohn

    • Avatar
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      je93
      Oct 13, 2019 at 10:05 AM

      We had the ball with over 3min, and all 3TOs, 28-7 least lead. Had we not fallen asleep, gotten cocky, or whatever, Illinois would have been done. But no, that MICHIGAN arrogance came back. Even rubbed off on the defense

      I will say this though, I’ve seen Illinois play several times this year, and WR9 is as good (or better) than anything we have on our roster. Dude is a monster, and would have run right over Hill

      • Avatar
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        Joby
        Oct 13, 2019 at 11:53 AM

        Is that Imatorbhebhe? Agree. Really impressive catch between a corner and safety. Also, a nice play by Amber Thomas (who is having a quietly excellent year) on the jump ball to the corner when those two were matched up.

        • Avatar
          Comments: 1575
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          je93
          Oct 13, 2019 at 12:06 PM

          Yes. Dude is a man-beast

    • DonAZ
      Comments: 476
      Joined: 8/12/2015
      DonAZ
      Oct 13, 2019 at 10:06 AM

      I wonder if Harbaugh has too much NFL in his head … meaning: he remembers what it was like to be an NFL quarterback, and in his head that’s how a 2019 college QB should play? Maybe that makes his QBs tense and tentative. I’m just speculating.

      • Avatar
        Comments: 338
        Joined: 12/24/2016
        INTJohn
        Oct 13, 2019 at 10:17 AM

        I think you’re speculating in the right direction – not sure you’ve hit the nail on the head but you’re looking in the right direction.

        If I recall correctly you’ve made comments in the past speculating about Harbaugh’s ‘favortism’ (some1 on this blog has) and I think thats in the right direction too.

        I noticed ,,,,,,, began to sense a lot of things about jim Harbaugh several years back and it all seems to finally be coming to head this season as many are coming around.

        In life one can get by on Bullshit for only so long and to be impolitely blunt – after 5 years, Harbaugh’s coaching Bullshit is coming to fruition.
        INTjohn

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5449
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      Lanknows
      Oct 13, 2019 at 12:01 PM

      Remember last year when everyone was crediting Patterson with the huge leap in offensive performance? This was all despite the OC, who was supposedly terrible. Yet Michigan managed to have a top 25 efficiency offense with Patterson and Hamilton.

      Was that logic wrong last year? What made last year’s offense the best Michigan has had in almost a decade?

      • Avatar
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        je93
        Oct 13, 2019 at 12:08 PM

        Opponents. We played three good defenses, and the offense looked terrible. Explains why Pep is in Siberia

        We took an offense not good enough to in the B1G, and turned it into a unit that can barely win. 7-5. 8wins is our ceiling

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5449
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          Oct 13, 2019 at 12:49 PM

          The 2 places I looked said Michigans SOS ranked 9th and 26th.

          They played 7 of the top 30 defenses per S&P.

          No

          • Avatar
            Comments: 1575
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            je93
            Oct 13, 2019 at 1:30 PM

            Wisconsin Defense came to Ann Arbor on crutches

            PSU & sparty were horribly banged up on O, and were never a threat to score. Sparty D kept us out of the endzone on five straight possessions inside their 40

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Oct 13, 2019 at 2:47 PM

              Excuses. These weren’t one game injuries and yet those defenses managed to be elite.

              Michigan had a top 25 offense and went 10-3. They beat Wisconsin, MSU, and PSU handily. They put up 39 points on OSU. They lost to ND by 1 score.

              You can sit here and act like everything is terrible if you want but these are facts.

              • Avatar
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                je93
                Oct 13, 2019 at 2:50 PM

                Lol, top25 offense

                Go rewatch the 60min versions of ND, Wisc, PennSt, ohio, and Florida

                I was the guy pointing it out early, that we were not a playoff team. Just calling it as I see it

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:13 PM

                  Yes I’m sure your memories of what you thought are more meaningful to you than the facts.

                  The playoff is for the top 4 teams. Until they can beat OSU Michigan isn’t likely to be that. Michigan finished there 5 times under Bo and once since. The only times this century that Michigan has looked like they might be legitimately part of that conversation were 2016, 2006, and 2003.

                  2018 Michigan was ranked 14 to start the year and then dropped to 21 after losing to Notre Dame. So congrats on your great early year foresight that everyone else had.

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 1575
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:17 PM

                  Don’t let me get under your skin Lank. We agree on a lot more today than most. Relax

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:27 PM

                  Just calling out your BS. It’s doesn’t take much effort.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:38 PM

                  What BS? That our offense wasn’t good? It was bad enough that Harbaugh fired his longtime protege

                  For someone who gets upset with criticism of JH, you’re criticizing that decision

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:56 PM

                  SOS, OL experience for starters and well, this.

                  I have no issue with moving on from Pep. He was the football assistant to Tommy Amaker. He made things better like Amaker did in but Michigan can do better.

                  Did they with Gattis? Doesn’t look like it yet but I’d give it the season at least.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:24 PM

                  What do you think the 25th ranked offense should do?

                  400 yards and 21 points against the 3rd ranked D.

                  400 yards and 35 points against the 13th ranked D.

                  300 yards and 10 points against the 16th ranked D.

                  400 yards and 20 points against the 18th ranked D.

                  Sounds about right to me.

                  Florida they quit but
                  300 yards and 13 points against the 22nd ranked D is probably not too far off expectations for a 25th ranked O.

                  Wisconsin and OSU didn’t rank in the top 30 which is probably why Michigan scored points 30 some points on each.

                  Face facts. A top 10 offense would have done better. A top 40 offense would have done worse. They played like somewhere in between.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:45 PM

                  Now take a look at how inferior teams did. For example, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Mizzou, and SCar all managed to score more on the Gators

                  The offense wasn’t good. Jim Harbaugh agreed

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:56 PM

                  Yes they did not play like the 25th ranked O against Florida.

                  They did better than that against others.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 5:12 PM

                  I can do ND and ohio too, but I think you’d ignore it

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM

                  I listed all the games the 25th ranked O played against top 25 defenses. You can cherry-pick the ones where they did worse than that, and someone else can cherry-pick the ones they did better. In aggregate: played like 25.

              • Avatar
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                Chowman
                Oct 13, 2019 at 4:08 PM

                C’mon Lank. Wisconsin’s defense was dead last year and Hornebrook was one of the worst QBs in the B1G. Nobody had to game plan for him. PSU had McSorely on 1 leg, and MSU couldn’t score in a whore house. That game was a nail biter till the DB fell down and let DPJ wide open for a score. The only teams we played last year that had a pulse beat us easily. That ND score wasn’t indicative of how close the game was. Brian Kelly knew our O couldn’t score on his D and went vanilla in the 2nd half. Fans like you drive me crazy. You see a 10-3 record and think we had a great season, but we just beat up on a bunch of garbage or hurt teams. Point blank, Jim and his staff isn’t getting the job done. I still see Don Brown’s D still susceptible to shallow crossing routes and quick slants, even against the likes of Rutgers, Iowa, and Illinois. Those teams just don’t have the athletes to take full advantage of Don’s Achilles Heal!

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:34 PM

                  And fans like you who think 10-3 is the baseline at Michigan drive me crazy. I know Hoke “doesn’t count”. Neither does Rich Rodriguez for some reason.

                  We crushed MSU, Wisconsin, and Penn State. Scoreboard, yardage, facts. Make excuses for those victories but not the losses. Can say “MSU score wasn’t indicative of how dominant UM was” but no.

                  All you’re saying is that you expect Michigan to be elite even though they haven’t been since 1997. With apologies to 2016 their best season since then.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:48 PM

                  Calm down Lank. It’s not just snobbish & unrealistic Michigan fans. The nation agrees we looked bad yesterday:
                  https://sports.yahoo.com/winners-and-losers-week-7-with-the-season-halfway-over-lets-take-a-look-at-the-playoff-picture-051503187.html

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 5:03 PM

                  Unrealistic for sure but Snobbish is not the word I’d use.

                  As for the article it doesn’t say anything about Michigan’s 8 win “ceiling” or all the other nonsense.

                  ” The schedule gets tougher with games against Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan in the second half of the season, but the Buckeyes look legit.”

                  So despite not covering the spread against Illinois Michigan is still one of the toughest threats to OSU – the #1 ranked team in the country by S&P.

                  That seems about right.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 5:11 PM

                  Dude, they listed us under LOSERS

                  Open your eyes

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5449
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          Lanknows
          Oct 13, 2019 at 1:03 PM

          Hamilton may be in the XFL but he is a head coach AND a gm. I imagine the XFL folds and Pep is back in college or the NFL but you never know.

          Regardless, Michigan made a leap from 49 to 25 in offensive efficiency in 2018. There is some reason or reasons why.

          • Avatar
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            ragingbull
            Oct 13, 2019 at 6:12 PM

            well one of the main reasons is drevno leaving. the OL took clear steps forward. warinner installed rules and schemes that college kids can comprehend and fairly easily adjust on the fly. you can be the smartest coach in the world but it boils down to what you can teach and get kids to retain in 20 hours/week.

            maybe pep is a great coach but clearly they felt better off without him

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Oct 13, 2019 at 8:44 PM

              I agree. I mentioned before I didn’t think Pep was THE PROBLEM, so what is? If there is a single THE PROBLEM with the Michigan O it is thinking they can run an NFL playbook. This is a consistent theme throughout the Harbaugh era and really since 2010. Keep it simple stupid.

              While I like Warriner, and agree he’s a significant upgrade to Drevno, I’m less convinced he has simplified things all that much. Sam Webb quoted Warriner as saying he though the OL could run inside zone, outside zone, and power all well. I’m highly skeptical that is true. Maybe he’s been Harbaugh’d or maybe this is why his time as an OC didn’t workout.

              • Avatar
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                je93
                Oct 13, 2019 at 9:06 PM

                But you’ve been defending Pep all day, and for weeks have trolled with comments about a pep hamilton billboard saying “miss me yet”

                The rest of us have been saying, no more scapegoats or cop outs, this is on JH

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5449
                Joined: 8/11/2015
                Lanknows
                Oct 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM

                Yes, I defended Pep last year and defend him now.

                Yes, the last 4 years of dramatically improved results and performance up to Bo-level heights are “on JH”.

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 1575
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 10:34 PM

                  Bo beat ohio

                  If JH did that, a lot of screaming would subside

                • Avatar
                  Comments: 338
                  Joined: 12/24/2016
                  INTJohn
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 10:45 AM

                  Lan,
                  I find your commentary, opinions and info interesting and even when I have doubts of your words I find still find value & insight but for you to compare JH’s Michigan coaching accomplishments to “Bo – level Heights” is one of the most ridiculous & laughable things I’ve read regarding Michigan football.
                  In Bo’s first 4 years at Michigan he went 38-6;
                  27-3 in the B10 with 3 B10 Championships – 2 outright.
                  2-2 vs OSU and 3-1 vs MSU and I don’t ever recall him blaming losses on the Refs.

                  And I agree with je93; if JH would just have one victory against OSU , lil lone an East Championship, few sane peeps would be bitching………..
                  There is no comparison & JH is not even close to Bo’s Heights & accomplishments as a head coach. Its just ridiculous………intjohn

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 6:06 PM

                  ESPN Bill Connelly said the same thing and backed it up with stats. You don’t have to believe it. Some people only believe the news they want to believe and dismiss all stats that don’t support their narrative.

                  I think if JH beat OSU and lost to Rutgers and Wisconson instead people would still be acting like spoiled little rich girls. The target would have moved had JH beaten OSU. If he had failed in bowls like Bo failed in bowls – it would have been about that.

                  OSU is at an all time pinnacle. Harbaugh needs to beats them. It’s not easy but he has to do it. But that’s not what this is about.

                  People talked themselves into expecting Michigan to become Alabama. That wasn’t a reasonable expectation. Saban won a national title but also lost 11 games his first 4 years. Michigan didn’t quite get there in 2016 but they weren’t far off.

                  The program is doing pretty well despite the headlines and reactions. They are playing like a top 25 team. That might mean 9 wins or gasp 8. Bo had 6 seasons with 8 wins or less. Moeller 2 and Carr had 3. And then we pretend like Rodriguez and Hoke didnt happen which is ridiculous too.

                  The problem is the fans who think 9 wins is failure and 8 is disaster. This is Michigan fergodsakes. 8 and 9 win seasons are gonna happen sometimes. National championships – well we’ve seen half of one in the last 70 years. I don’t know why we EXPECT more.

                  Anyway Saban wouldn’t be able to do what he did at Alabama here either. Not with no recruiting base, cold weather, strict academics, and cheating that is either not there or ineffective. Oh and a sullen and entitled fanbase that has a negative effect on the program.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 10:11 PM

                  Brian Kelly took ND to a NC game and a playoff appearance with the same factors Michigan faces

                  I don’t like BK. But the excuses you just listed don’t fly with ND competing with UGa twice, and beating LSU in the last three years

  5. Avatar
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    Extrajuice
    Oct 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM

    This team isn’t very good and may beat Maryland and Indiana. That’s all I see. They’ll lose to MSU because Sparty has NOTHING left to play for. They’ll play their best game against UM.

    My questions, why hasn’t anyone questioned Harbaugh on his 4th down attempts early in 4th qtr? Up 3 pts at about 12 yd line and going for it? Maybe even worse, up 10 near same spot and going for it again on 4th and 3? WTF? Put us up 2 TD’s. It’s been just BAD all around.

    • Avatar
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      INTJohn
      Oct 13, 2019 at 10:54 AM

      Tend to agree with this about Sparty. Their season is over as far as any hope for winning the East after the 2 blowout losses to Wisky & OSU.

      Dantonio will have his team absolutely jackt putting everything they have into beating the Wolverines in The Big House no holds barred. dantonio will make this game very personal as only he can and even if all else is loss a win in AA by them will still make their season…………intjohn

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5449
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      Lanknows
      Oct 13, 2019 at 12:09 PM

      I didn’t like the first call but loved the second one.

      If you’re up 13 you force the opposition to go for 2 TDs and potentially win the game. If you’re up 10 you open up OT and a better than 50-50 chance of winning there. I’d almost rather be up 10.

      Another case of Harbaugh getting heat no matter what he does. Aggressive = stupid. Conservative = arrogant.

      • GKblue
        Comments: 320
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        GKblue
        Oct 14, 2019 at 8:27 AM

        “Another case of Harbaugh getting heat no matter what he does. Aggressive = stupid. Conservative = arrogant.”

        A lot of people are second guessing the offense. All decisions in the red zones are situational obviously. Most times going for the points is logical except not sure about JH confidence in our kicker with the wind.

        In this case going for it on 4th was aggressive (which we have been lacking); the play calls themselves may be opened for discussion. Also, I think JH is thinking that Illinois is backed up close to their end zone and gave his defense great field position if they don’t get the first.

    • 17years
      Comments: 277
      Joined: 2/6/2018
      17years
      Oct 13, 2019 at 2:08 PM

      they should be questioning Gattis as he is the play caller.

    • Avatar
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      Chowman
      Oct 13, 2019 at 4:23 PM

      I thought the same thing, here we go again. Just like his decisions to go for it against Army. Thank God Illinois has a horrible D that can’t tackle. But I thought once again, both times were bad decisions but he got away with it!

  6. Lanknows
    Comments: 5449
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    Oct 13, 2019 at 12:42 PM

    Reading these comments you’d think this team lost. I think it boils down to fumbles. Get rid of those and this is a mostly dominant performance. Even so, nearly doubled up Illinois in yards, nearly ran for 300. Illinois had 2 drives over 40 yards. Most were 3 and out.

    There were negatives to be sure. The 3rd quarter was a brutal watching experience. Patterson was inconsistent at best. The goddamn fumbles. If I have one big criticism it is that the team did not seem to be very resilient when things went sideways. They “came back” but it felt more like Illinois handed it to them. This may be complete BS but it FEELS like this team got down on themselves here and against Wisconsin. Then again they battled against Army.

    All things considered I feel better about this team after yesterday. The run game success was a breakthrough. It doesn’t matter who was at RB – a 5-star, a walk-on, a converted LB. The holes were massive. Till garbage time the RBs were averaging somewhere north of 8 ypc. Yes, that’s more on Illinois than anything else but if Michigan failed to run on them the way they did it was going to be troublesome.

    The defense did fine, especially considering Paye and Hill was out. Redo the Countdown today and I’m putting all 4 starting DL in the top 10. Illinois put up more points than you’d expect but the fumbles played into that.

    Part of my optimism is what happened in other games. Wisconsin completely waxed MSU. Yeah, the transitive property can’t be taken as gospel, but it’s consistent with the overall season results. Michigan should be touchdown favorites over MSU.

    Iowa went toe to toe with PSU. Outgained them mostly because of 2 turnovers. Home vs road is different but I didn’t see much difference in how PSU did with how Michigan did. These 3 teams are on the same level. Michigan would be favored at home against PSU. I don’t expect to win but that game is a near coin-flip IMO.

    Notre Dame beat a 500 team by 3. The most impressive thing they’ve done is play a close game against Georgia, who is a bit tarnished also.

    It seems many are so ready to call those games losses but I’d be a bit surprised if we don’t win 1 of them.

    9-3 looks more likely to me than it did before yesterday. I stand by my preseason prediction – also the national consensus. We’ll see what PSU brings but some might say Michigan is right on track relative to season expectations.

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5449
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      Lanknows
      Oct 13, 2019 at 12:56 PM

      In a bit of a down year Michigan looks like a top 25 team. The horror.

      • Avatar
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        je93
        Oct 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM

        Everyone returns on O, and Don Brown leading the D. JH in year5. 8wins should not be our ceiling. If we’re top25 with that, it’ll speak to skewed polls more than actual performance

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5449
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          Oct 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM

          Pep Hamilton didn’t return.

          The year is 2019, not 5.

          8 wins is not the ceiling

          • Avatar
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            je93
            Oct 13, 2019 at 1:40 PM

            Nobody wanted Pep. Not before he came to Michigan, not after. You’re rooting for the wrong guy

            Two things can be true Lank: Michigan got worse on offense, and Pep is a bad OC

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Oct 13, 2019 at 1:55 PM

              Michigan got better on offense in 2018. They are worse in 2019. I put that on transition costs related to Josh Gattis and/or Josh Gattis.

              I think they got better in 2018 for three reasons. Patterson was a huge upgrade at QB, the Warriner/Drevno swap, and Hamilton settling in for year 2.

              • Avatar
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                je93
                Oct 13, 2019 at 1:58 PM

                Swap Hamilton with OL experience and I agree with you on 2018 improving over 17 Lank

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:16 PM

                  Michigan starting OL experience

                  2017 – 5th, SR, SR, SO, SO
                  2018 – 5th, SR, SR, JR, SO

                  They got better because Kugler wasn’t good and Warriner was.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:21 PM

                  Not college experience, playing experience. Thought you knew that

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:42 PM

                  You just keep saying things and they aren’t true.

                  There were 5 years of combined starting experience in 2017 (Bredeson 2 + Mason 3).

                  There were 5 years of combined starting experience in 2018 (Bredeson 3 + Onwenu + Bushell Beatty).

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 4:37 PM

                  2017: Cole and Bredeson combine for 4 years returning experience

                  2018: Bredeson, Onwenu, and JBB combine for 4 years returning experience

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 5:10 PM

                  How’d I miss this? Cole was a 4yr starter. Bredesen went into the 2017 with half a season starting experience. No other OL had started a game before that Florida kick-off

                  In 2018, all five who started against ND had started at least one game, all but Runyan had multiple starts

                  You’re either wrong, or making stuff up, hoping it won’t get caught in your flurry of posts. Am I sensing another meltdown? You’re due for your 3d in 3 consecutive years

                  2017: Cole and Bredeson combine for 4 years returning experience

                  2018: Bredeson, Onwenu, and JBB combine for 4 years returning experience

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 6:01 PM

                  More like a MELTDOWN of your argument.

                  Starts going into 2017 – 47
                  Cole 38
                  Bredeson 8
                  Kugler 1
                  Onwenu 0
                  JBB 0

                  Starts going into 2018 – 42
                  Bredeson 20
                  Onwenu 9
                  JBB 7
                  Ruiz 5
                  Runyan 1

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 6:06 PM

                  I look forward to seeing to your negs in November and December JE. I’ll take it as your way of telling me how upset I am while you can’t post. Assuming you’re a man of your word which…

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 6:36 PM

                  So, 4 guys with multiple starts versus just two. 2018 was experienced, 2017 was starting over

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 8:35 PM

                  LOL. Yes of course I should have realized by experience you didn’t mean years in the program or number of starts but number of players with greater than X starts.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 8:43 PM

                  If you played sports, you would know the difference

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 6:07 PM

                  I do not agree with you. [Edited by Thunder]

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
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              Lanknows
              Oct 13, 2019 at 1:58 PM

              I wasn’t excited about the Pep hire. I think he’s fairly mediocre for a P5 coordinator. I just never believed he was THE PROBLEM WITH THE MICHIGAN OFFENSE.

              The assumption of massive improvement via Hamilton to Gattis was wrong. Maybe it’ll be proven right at some point but early returns say no.

              Patterson’s regression is on Gattis. Though it’s probably being overstated also.

    • Avatar
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      je93
      Oct 13, 2019 at 1:27 PM

      Illinois got beat by EMU

      They quit in the 1st Q, but we Michigan’d them back into it. THAT’s why fans are upset

      • 17years
        Comments: 277
        Joined: 2/6/2018
        17years
        Oct 13, 2019 at 2:11 PM

        Michigan was rolling with the run in the 1st half. And didn’t keep it up in the 2nd. That’s my big issue with yesterday. Also, that Ronnie Bell is still the featured WR target. This offense has been very strange to watch this year. I’m tired of things being strange. We went through 2 years of it with Pep Hamilton. And it just keeps coming this year.

  7. Avatar
    Comments: 42
    Joined: 1/2/2016
    peterfumo
    Oct 13, 2019 at 12:48 PM

    I am not an expert but only go by what I see. On offense it seems like it takes too long for a play to get off, too long to develop and then mistakes get made with a lack of discipline and focus. They just seem disorganized. Meanwhile at least based on recruiting classes we know they have at least raw talent, and I can’t believe that Harbaugh and Warriner and the rest of the staff have forgotten how to coach, For the life of me I cannot figure out why they look so bad. Lack of consistent approach and too much staff turnover?

    • 17years
      Comments: 277
      Joined: 2/6/2018
      17years
      Oct 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM

      Josh Gattis.

      • Avatar
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        je93
        Oct 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM

        That’s a cop out. Gattis may not be good, but JH hired him, after a short phone interview

        Harbaugh is to blame, not unlike Hoke & RR before him

        • 17years
          Comments: 277
          Joined: 2/6/2018
          17years
          Oct 13, 2019 at 1:50 PM

          He hired the last 2 OC’s, so ok, it’s him.

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5449
          Joined: 8/11/2015
          Lanknows
          Oct 13, 2019 at 4:40 PM

          What about Carr? Was Carr not to blame for the decline in the program in the 2000s?

          And what about Moeller? Was he not to blame for off-field embarrassment and averaging fewer than 9 wins a year?

          What about Schembechler? Never won a national tile, generally lost in bowls, refused to modernize on offense.

          • Lanknows
            Comments: 5449
            Joined: 8/11/2015
            Lanknows
            Oct 13, 2019 at 4:41 PM

            You wanna talk about a guy who stacked up wins against terrible competition…

            • Avatar
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              WindyCityBlue
              Oct 14, 2019 at 2:48 PM

              Who, Bo? He was 5-4-1 against Ohio State in his first 10 years, when they were a perennial top 10 team and coached by one of their best of all time. Harbaugh should be piling up so many wins against such terrible competition

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Oct 14, 2019 at 5:44 PM

              Bo finished 9, 9, 6, 6 in the AP poll his first 4 years

              Harbaugh finished 12, 10, UR, 14 in the AP poll his first 4.

              Of course these were different eras. When it was the big 2 little 8 and michigan didn’t bother playing anyone in preseason. Bo didn’t win a bowl game til year 12.

              • Avatar
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                WindyCityBlue
                Oct 14, 2019 at 6:34 PM

                Which has what to do with beating Ohio State 5 times in his first 10 seasons? Yeah, yeah, I know…it’s “possible” that Harbaugh will beat OSU the next six years in a row.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5449
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                Lanknows
                Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM

                There’s more to it than beating OSU. I know that and you know that.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5449
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                Lanknows
                Oct 14, 2019 at 6:44 PM

                Harbaugh has Michigan to Bo level. Meyer put OSU above Woody level.

                • Avatar
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                  INTJohn
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 7:04 PM

                  lol. Your being Harbaugh Homer delusional or else in complete denial if you think Harbaugh has Michigan to “Bo – Level”.

              • Avatar
                Comments: 338
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                INTJohn
                Oct 14, 2019 at 6:51 PM

                Actually Bo did play ranked teams early in the season:
                ’69 – #9 Missouri
                70 – No ranked teams but Az, @Wash and TxA&M all P5 teams today.
                71 – opened the season against #20 Northwestern
                72 – #6 UCLA & #18 Tulane
                your assumption that Bo only played cupcakes early in the first few games of the season is totally unfounded.
                Jus sayin………intjohn

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 14, 2019 at 9:21 PM

                  Northwestern is in the Big 10.

                  Fair point about Missouri and UCLA but that’s 2 top 20 teams in 4 years.

                  I believe Harbaugh has doubled that.

                  And as far as bowls go Bo wouldn’t have had to face FSU, Florida, or South Carolina. Given his record in other bowls he wouldn’t have done any better than JH.

                  I admit I probably overstated HOW easy Bo’s nonconference schedule but the point is that Bo faced a much easier schedule overall than JH and that goes preseason, Big 10, post-season.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
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              Lanknows
              Oct 14, 2019 at 6:40 PM

              Hoke beat Ohio State and was fired 2 years later.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5449
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                Lanknows
                Oct 14, 2019 at 6:41 PM

                3

      • Avatar
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        peterfumo
        Oct 13, 2019 at 1:35 PM

        You really think it’s him? Every year we blames someone different. 2 years ago it was Drevno, last year Pep, this year Gattis. I just wonder if the staff turnover and approach turnover takes a toll

        • 17years
          Comments: 277
          Joined: 2/6/2018
          17years
          Oct 13, 2019 at 1:41 PM

          2 years ago it was Pep. Last year it was Pep. This year it’s Gattis. Unless and until Jim Harbaugh hires a great OC this is what we will see.

          • Avatar
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            je93
            Oct 13, 2019 at 1:56 PM

            I’ll add, Harbaugh should follow the BKelly model. Kelly “handed over the keys,” but to an experienced OC, with similar philosophy

            JH hired blindly, and ended up with a guy who’s never done any of the key performance requirements, and whose style contrasted his own. Now when JH gets involved, we look like a group who never met before September 2019

            • 17years
              Comments: 277
              Joined: 2/6/2018
              17years
              Oct 13, 2019 at 2:04 PM

              I read more often now that Jim Harbaugh hired him based on a 20 minute phone call, or, blindly, which isn’t true. He had been watching his career back to when he was coaching at Penn St. But it looks like it’s turning out that Gattis was given too much credit by Jim Harbaugh for the success of the teams he was at. And this is a flaw in Jim Harbaugh’s judgement in coaches. This has been pulling him down now for 2+ years.
              Though in his defense, I think he wanted Jim McElwain to have a bigger role than just coaching WRs. I am seriously holding out hope that Jim McElwain will want to leave being a head coach, and want to just be an OC. He has talked about how he liked being an assistant because he had one area to work on, and he just had to report to the HC, and not the media, and not to the people over him at the university. I hope he returns to Michigan as the OC and stays for a long time.
              But that’s probably a pipe dream. And I have lots of other things to do. So I’m not holding on to that dream too hard.

              • Lanknows
                Comments: 5449
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                Lanknows
                Oct 13, 2019 at 3:26 PM

                It’s an overtly stupid perspective to have. Nobody hires anybody based on 20 minutes. You don’t even get on the phone based on 20 minutes. It’s a team effort.

                I think it’s probably true that Gattis got too much credit, but I’m sure Harbaugh thought about that. He’s hired plenty of overqualified experienced candidates (Brown, Mattison, Warriner, McElwain) and he’s taken some chances on less experienced guys too (Partridge, Durkin). I don’t see any evidence that Harbaugh continuously hires under-qualified people and the extent to which he does it has worked out at Michigan and especially his previous HC stops.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
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              Lanknows
              Oct 13, 2019 at 2:09 PM

              What if Harbaugh beats Kelly in 2 weeks?

              • Avatar
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                je93
                Oct 13, 2019 at 2:13 PM

                What if he wins the NC?

                I’d be happy as heck. I wish I was wrong. But I honestly don’t think I am. We’ll be lucky to get to 8wins. Sparty kept Jonathan MF Taylor in check. They will stop our run game and make Shea beat them
                O-10, Dantonio hatred matters

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:24 PM

                  MSU got destroyed by Wisc, just like UM did.

                  I’ll make a bet with you. You pick whichever you feel more comfortable. Loser has to shut up for 2 months – no posting on TTB.

                  1. I think UM will beat MSU.

                  2. I think UM will win at least one out of PSU, ND, OSU.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:29 PM

                  Bet. 1 & 2 have to happen

                  I’m already looking good against WCB, with Mason having 1 carry at the halfway point

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
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                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:34 PM

                  Which bet are you picking?

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:37 PM

                  Both. That’s why I said “&”

                  If that’s too risky for you, let’s bet a $50 donation to the site

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:49 PM

                  I said pick one and your answer is both. LOL.

                  What happens if they lose to MSU but beat ND?

                  Pick one. I give you the choice. Whichever you’re more confident in.

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:50 PM

                  If you want to make one of the bets $50 and one of them a 2-month STFU, I’m willing. Name which is which.

                • Avatar
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                  je93
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 2:51 PM

                  Well then, 2 of course. Seeing as I said “8wins is our ceiling”

                • Lanknows
                  Comments: 5449
                  Joined: 8/11/2015
                  Lanknows
                  Oct 13, 2019 at 3:18 PM

                  Great. If Michigan beats OSU, PSU, OR ND you will not comment for 2 months afterwards. If they lose to all 3 you will not hear a peep from me in December or January.

  8. Lanknows
    Comments: 5449
    Joined: 8/11/2015
    Lanknows
    Oct 13, 2019 at 2:09 PM

    Harbaugh is responsible for who he hires. Harbaugh took a risk on a rookie OC. No one seemed very concerned about that in the offseason. Why?

    Now people are MAD. Though Gattis has done nothing to inspire much confidence, judging an OC or DC after half a season is premature.

    I see a consistent theme in ignoring the downside in these 3 examples:

    Rashan Gary is disappointment if he isn’t an all american even though the median #1 prospect doesn’t.

    Josh Gattis should produce a top 10 offense even though he’s never been an OC.

    Michigan football’s baseline is 9-3 even though we’ve had multiple HCs fall well short of that.

    • Avatar
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      je93
      Oct 13, 2019 at 2:20 PM

      I never expected a top10 O. I read & listen to all kinds of MICHIGAN stuff, and don’t recall any credible source predicting top10 either. But this is worth b:tching about

      UM offense — NCAA rankings: Total 84th (387.3), rush 78th (156.2), pass 73rd (231.2), scoring T-58 (30.3), FUMBLES LOST (17 fumbles, 9 lost) — 126th of 130 teams

      • Lanknows
        Comments: 5449
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        Lanknows
        Oct 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM

        Mgoblog panel unanimously expected a top 10 offense. I don’t know if that counts as credible in your book but they’re pretty high profile as far as the Michigan blogsphere goes.

        Regardless, the offense has been disappointing to everyone. The fumbles are the biggest thing IMO. Without those things look a lot better. Of course those are a symptom of the overall lack of organization and cohesiveness in the offense.

        Nobody is saying it is going great. The question is if it can get to a level of competency to put up a fight against OSU. If they get blown out by PSU I will convert over to your perspective of hopeless negativity.

  9. GrandLake
    Comments: 68
    Joined: 8/22/2019
    GrandLake
    Oct 13, 2019 at 2:12 PM

    Shea did not look great but he wasn’t awful yesterday and actually ran and made a few good throws. The fumbles are just killing them – ZC ended a good drive and Tru put Illinois on a short field. BTW Illinois likely doesn’t even get the 3rd TD if the refs actually called a pretty blatant hold on Danna inside the UM 5yd line.
    Add in Mason’s stupid penalty taking a away a likely TD which resulted in another missed Nordin FG (cant blame it on being 50+yds this time) and UM could easily have had 50+pts. 2 RBs over 100yds and some good throws to Bell DPJ and Schoonmaker – yes it could have been better and yes Illinois is awful but it wasn’t a terrible performance.
    Don’t feel great about next week mainly due to it being road game at PSU but I do feel better about ND game as their close loss to UGA doesn’t appear as great today nor does their win over the corpse of USC.

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5449
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      Lanknows
      Oct 13, 2019 at 2:31 PM

      All true. It’s not all doom and gloom like some would have you think.

      This was progress, albeit incremental.

      • Lanknows
        Comments: 5449
        Joined: 8/11/2015
        Lanknows
        Oct 13, 2019 at 2:32 PM

        It was also a regression in the fumbling department. Can’t have this against PSU, ND, or OSU or you lose. Stop fumbling.

      • Avatar
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        WindyCityBlue
        Oct 14, 2019 at 1:23 PM

        What qualifies as “All gloom and doom”? If you’re talking about people who are predicting that we won’t win another game all year, yeah, they’re not being reasonable. So whoever those “some” people are that you’ve seen doing that, we can largely dismiss them.

        I suspect however that you’re putting people who are saying that 9-3 is our ceiling, 8-4 is our most likely outcome, and 7-5 is not out of the realm of possibility into the “all gloom and doom” category, instead of the category of clear-eyed realists.

        • Lanknows
          Comments: 5449
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          Lanknows
          Oct 14, 2019 at 5:48 PM

          “Doom and gloom” refers to the overwhelmingly negative comments and predictions above. Not sure where you’re getting these made up distinctions from.

          I think 8-4 is a very reasonable prediction. So is 9-3. 7-5 when you have 5 wins already seems pessimistic to me but we’ll see. It’s possible. So is winning the Big Ten.

          • Avatar
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            WindyCityBlue
            Oct 14, 2019 at 6:48 PM

            Predictions such as??? What predictions in this thread are “all gloom and doom” and by who? Be specific. The fact that you refuse to be is why I’m offering up possibilities.

            And yes, 7-5, 8-4, 9-3 and winning the Big Ten are all “possible”, but that’s not remotely the same as being equally likely, or even close to it. Winning the Big Ten would mean beating Penn State, Ohio State and then Wisconsin, all of which will be tougher games than any that Harbaugh has won in 4 years. And that’s assuming that he also beats State, Maryland and Indiana, none of which are gimmes. Far, far less likely than going 3-3 the rest of the season.

            • Lanknows
              Comments: 5449
              Joined: 8/11/2015
              Lanknows
              Oct 14, 2019 at 8:50 PM

              Most of the gloom didn’t attach a record prediction – did it need to WCB? JE did, saying 8 wins was the ceiling.

              I’m not sure what your point is here. No one is expecting a Big Ten title anymore AFAIK. No one thinks it’s likely. Certainly it is far less likely than 8-4, which I think is the consensus expectation right now.

              I think 9-3 is more likely than 7-5 but reasonable minds can disagree.

              I don’t think PSU 2019 is better than the PSU teams Michigan beat in 2016 or 2018. Have they done something to convince you that they are a top 10 team? If Michigan did what they did would you consider us a top 10 team? I doubt it very much.

              • Avatar
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                WindyCityBlue
                Oct 15, 2019 at 6:39 AM

                “Doom and gloom refers to the overwhelmingly negative comments and predictions above.”

                So for “doom and gloom”, you offer up one prediction that said we’ll have a winning record and go to a bowl game. To coin a phrase, The horror!

                You conveniently fail to mention that this year’s Michigan team is nowhere near as good as 2016 or 2018, and that we’re playing Penn State on the road, where Harbaugh has never won against a ranked team. But sure, if Michigan wins 49-10 Saturday, I’ll say they deserve to be a top 10 team.

    • Avatar
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      je93
      Oct 13, 2019 at 2:36 PM

      Shea had two good drives. Against Illinois. EMU, Nebraska and Minnesota QBs were more accurate against the Illini

    • Avatar
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      WindyCityBlue
      Oct 14, 2019 at 2:25 PM

      The problem is that every game this year except Rutgers has been riddled with these kinds of “if only” mistakes. You can only keep saying “we’d be a much better team if only we didn’t make so many mistakes” for so long before you simply have to acknowledge that it’s a feature, not a bug.

  10. Avatar
    Comments: 338
    Joined: 12/24/2016
    INTJohn
    Oct 14, 2019 at 7:26 PM

    “If he [Harbaugh] had failed in bowls like Bo failed in bowls – it would have been about that.”
    @Lan re: your quote from somewhere way ‘up north’

    Bo’s bowl record you’ve referred to ,yes, includes Rose Bowl losses – Playing in the Rose Bowls by the way back then were what a team was rewarded for being the Big Ten Champ. Harbaugh should be so lucky to ever be a Head Coach of a Big Ten Champion Michigan team and have that many appearances in the Rose Bowl.

    But to your point I’ll entertain Bo’s ‘loser’ bowl appearances along with Harbauigh’s ‘loser’ bowl appearances:
    In Bo’s first 4 non rose bowl “loser’ bowl games he went 1-3
    Harbaugh in his 4 Loser Bowls is Hmmmmm 1-3
    yep your right Lan……..Harbaugh is right there with Bo.

    • Lanknows
      Comments: 5449
      Joined: 8/11/2015
      Lanknows
      Oct 14, 2019 at 9:05 PM

      Covered above John. It is different league. There is no more Big 2 Little 8. You don’t only have to beat OSU. And beating OSU is harder now than it ever was. Right now you have OSU, PSU, and Wisconsin in the top 10. 3 others in the top 25. S&P says 8 of the top 28 are Big Ten teams.

      Like Harbaugh Bo beat the teams that he was supposed to beat and struggled against elite competition. He had a losing record against ND and in bowl games.

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