LanknowsCan you address what it means that
a) Lewis’ PBUs went down so dramatically in 2016?
b) Lewis had fewer INTs than Stribling in 2016 and the same over his entire career, despite playing far more snaps?
*If you want to steal 2 of Stribling’s as ‘gifts’ and reduce his total INTs to 2/3’s of Lewis you also have to acknowledge that he probably saw 2/3’s of Lewis playing time – at best.
Lanknows“3 PBUs doesn’t turn into 13 PBUs because of “luck.” Your stats don’t improve by 433% because of random chance.)”
Playing time is probably the biggest factor here. Stribling split snaps with Clark and missed a chunk of the season due to injury in 2015. In 2016 he played nearly every meaningful snap as it was Lewis&Clark who took turns getting hurt. So he probably more than doubled his snaps.
Beyond that… yes, there is randomness and there are circumstances that influence this. You can see this by examining Jourdan Lewis’ stats. Lewis’ PBUs went way down in 2016 which — if you assume Lewis was at least as he was the year before — indicates that yes, random chance is a big part of PBUs also.
And circumstance — I would argue that teams just made a more concerted effort to not throw near Lewis. The 2015 MSU game alone had a half season’s worth of PBUs (6). That’s because MSU’s gameplan was to throw it right at Lewis. He had zero PBUs in 2016 against MSU. Would you argue that was indicative of some sort of deficiency in playmaking for Lewis? Of course not. And doing so for Stribling may have been just as ridiculous (despite being less obvious or intuitive).
It’s not reasonable to argue that these statistics told a story about Stribling and his improvement when you have Jourdan Lewis right across the field from him…unless you think Jourdan Lewis got worse while he was winning all those awards he won.
Lanknows” I think you’re overstating how much luck is involved in playing cornerback”
This statement illustrates a key point in our debate. You view INTs as a primary indicator of “playing cornerback”. My point about luck relates to INT numbers — NOT overall CB play. You see the two as going hand-in-hand while I think a great CB can have low INT numbers in a given year.
I agree with you that over the long run the INT average is meaningful. Larger sample of data smooths out fluctuations in luck, DBs around you, etc. Over their 4-year careers Stribling and Lewis both averaged 1.5 INTs per year. Lewis played significantly more snaps, so has a lower “playmaking” rate, but that’s not really an indictment of his ability as a corner (rather it’s a credit) in my opinion. It IS an indictment of your preseason critiques in 2015 and 2016 that Stribling lacked playmaking while Lewis did not.
I don’t believe that Stribling is a better “playmaker” than Lewis even though he had twice as many INTs in 2016. That’s just the volatility I’m talking about. My whole point is to not make too much out of one year INT numbers (or PBU numbers).
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I do also agree that PBUs are a better indicator than INTs because they are less fluctuation-prone. BUT, a) PBU’s are still a once-a-game on average stat (i.e., volatile) an b) a PBU is not a “playmaker” stat. I still think you have to take the PBU numbers in context and recognize that they mean you’re getting thrown at. If you’re getting thrown at often it means you’re letting guys open. A coverage sack or a ball thrown away doesn’t register as a CB stat, but it means your CB was doing an excellent job — better than when he uses his makeup speed, timing, or strength to bat away a thrown ball at the last second.
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This is what you wrote about Stribling right before he had 6 INTs in 2 years. “the cornerback position is about making plays on the ball, and he doesn’t seem to have that “it” factor for a corner. He seems to be a step slow when it comes to timing, turning to run, finding the ball, etc. … Stribling seems to be on the outside looking in when it comes to major playing time this season. ”
My comments on the topic are the same as they were in that post:
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2015/07/2015-season-countdown-35-channing.html
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Isn’t it possible that Stribling’s been a “playmaker” all along? Given the fluctuations in year-to-year INT stats and playing time, Stribling had more INTs on fewer attempts than Lewis. Not just in 2016 but over the span of their career.
Isn’t it possible he was very good in coverage all along? That the increase in PBUs from 3 to 13 isn’t anymore indicative of improvement than Jourdan Lewis’ decrease from 20 to 11 is indicative of decline.
Isn’t it possible that his one true weakness was run defense all along? That that is what kept him from keeping Clark or Hollowell strapped to the bench? You were critical of this all along and all available evidence says you were right on point.
I think it’s not only possible but likely for all of the above. So, while I agree that Stribling got better, I don’t agree that your critical takes on his coverage ability and playmaking ability were valid. I think you’re still reading too much into the box score and not enough into the circumstantial evidence like playing time and roster context.
Lewis is a better player than Stribling – not because of ‘playmkaing’ or coverage ability reflected in PBUs – but because he is a more complete player who the coaches have trusted with more playing time and tougher assignments throughout their careers. A better player can have inferior PBU and INT stats, as we saw in 2016. A better player can have a lower INT rate (as we saw over the course of Stribling/Lewis’ careers).
LanknowsMalzone is not a reasonable comparison for Peters at this point. The talent difference is evident in his offers with Alzone’s best being Pitt and Wake Forest. For Peters it was LSU, VaTech, Wisconsin and a host of others.
More importantly… Malzone was 4th string (at best) in his RS FR year and never came close to challenging for a backup job. In order for Peters to be “Malzone”, Peters would need to be behind Malzone (which would make Malzone not the “Malzone” he is.
Instead Peters is supposedly close to O’Korn now even though everyone is back (except Morris). Peters is why Malzone is supposedly looking at a transfer. Nobody transferred because they got passed by Malzone. While it’s possible McCaffrey does the same thing to Peters, it’s way to soon to suggest that as a concern when things are (rumored to be) going well thusfar.
Peters not starting in 2018 next year doesn’t mean he’s ‘another Malzone’ anymore than it means he’s ‘another Brady’. Sometimes good or even great players have to wait their turn because they’re behind a vet getting the job done.
LanknowsThe floor for QB performance in 2017 seems higher than it’s been in a long while*. When was the last time Michigan had an all-conference vet returning as a starter AND a legit competition between talent v. experience at the backup spot?
With Rudock you had a reliable player but the transfer situation and lack of viable backup made for uncertainty. With Robinson/Gardner you had 2 excellent talents, but the coaching situation was so bad it undermined the entire offense.
I think you have to go back to Henne/Mallet to find something close and Mallet was a true freshman who wasn’t ready yet. Probably 2005 (Guttierez/Henne) is the last time Michigan could feel so secure and I would argue Speight’s already hit a higher level than Henne had (2 years experience certainly a difference there).
You probably have to go back to 1999 (Brady/Henson) to have a year where Michigan was clearly more confident in it’s top 2 options than we will be in 2017.
*The OL could blow that to bits of course, as it did for Gardner.
LanknowsWell that’s good news.
If Peters is going to be on track to replace Speight in 2019* he needs to be pushing for a backup spot as a RS FR, at least at times.
*That’s assuming Speight doesn’t go pro after 2017. An option that UM fans shouldn’t rule out given the NFL’s hunger for traditional passing QBs + the potential Harbaugh/Hamilton development + a guy who was all conference with sophomore eligibility.
Lanknowsand here I thought you had been paying attention to Michigan CBs.
(this is a joke in case it’s not obvious)
LanknowsThat’s the point. There’s an element of luck to getting any amount of INTs, no matter how impressive the individual play is (or not). You’re talking about something that happens 2-5 times a season (or not). You look at HOF NFL CBs and their INTs typically fluctuate from year to year. It doesn’t mean they are getting better or worse.
There is a standard deviation of about 2 INTs even for a great at the NFL level. 0-2 INTs in a season is well within it, even for an elite college CB.
I’m not saying Stribling didn’t improve. I’m saying the “playmaker” attribute you criticized him for a year ago didn’t go from weakness to strength in one offseason.
I haven’t see where Stribling graded out “not so well” in 2015. He played less, but that’s mostly because Clark was playing well too. Is there evidence to say CB play at Michigan improved in 2016 vs 2015 or did Michigan miss having a 3rd guy they trusted?
LanknowsCare to make a guess about if he will be drafted? And if so, what will his NFL career look like.
I would guess he is a career backup but has a good 5-7 year run with a handful of starts in injury replacement situations. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up starting regularly either though.
LanknowsWasn’t looking to rehash the debate as much as say that some of the good things I’ve said and some of the bad things you’ve said were both reflected in PFF’s assessment.
The thing about Lewis vs Stribling is that teams didn’t really go after Stribling. MSU went after Lewis pretty overtly (though Burbridge being their #1 guy has something to do with it.) There is a debate that can be had about what Lewis’ performance against Burbridge meant. On the one hand he was targeted a lot at a low success rate. On the other hand he was targeted a lot with a high yardage total. FSU, OSU, and other top teams were absolutely not afraid to throw at Lewis. I think they viewed Stribling & Lewis as being pretty equal in coverage, so you might as well throw at the better WR.
Overall I agree that Lewis was better. That’s a consensus view that I don’t think anyone has countered. He was the guy Michigan put on #1 WRs when they matched up that way. He got more honors and will get drafted higher. etc. I just don’t think the margin was as large as has been asserted. PFF graded Stribling out higher FWIW.
In my mind it’s another case of preconceptions being sticky. Most people were worried about non-Lewis CB2 coming into 2015. Even after a very good year and all the DUDE talk last Spring, people still didn’t want to look at Stribling as an NFL-caliber CB. Splitting snaps with Clark played into that, but few considered that we might have 3 excellent CBs on the roster at that time.
The playmaking thing remains silly to me. I’ve said this before but rare events are volatile. Peppers didn’t return a punt for a TD – doesn’t mean he wasn’t a playmaker. Striblings playmaking stats went up when he got more snaps. Maybe he improved in this regard dramatically, maybe it was always there. In 2015 he had 2 INTs in 9 games while splitting snaps with Clark. In 2016 he had 4 INTs in 12 games playing full time. That’s no significant change. His tackles went up by about 50% (probably about what his snaps went up).
The playmaking thing was something we argued about before and I think Stribling proved you wrong (more than he improved). That’s one example of how I think you’ve been consistently negative and skeptical about Stribling. But whatever – that’s old news.
LanknowsAgreed. The speed is the thing that really is keeping him from being taken highly. Strength is nothing some NFL-caliber “nutritionist” can’t fix up. Tackling can be cleaned up with coaching/development.
It does sound like he has a good chance to be drafted with his size and college production.
LanknowsPerry sounds like he’s unlikely to return but I don’t think it affects the WR unit too badly.
Still too hard to have a firm opinion on the overall offense with the OL in so much flux. The rumblings on Runyan, Kugler, and Ruiz are encouraging but ultimately they are pretty guarded comments that don’t tell us too much. Still hoping for a few guys to really make a leap beside Bredeson, Onwenu, and Cole.
LanknowsI’d bump up my LB personnel grade to a B- or even a B based on UMBig’s hype. Bush is really the key player here and it sounds like he’s on track to step up to be a quality starter, at least at this stage.
LanknowsPerfect size to develop into a FB. Kind of crazy for a preferred walk-on, but he just might be the favorite to start in 2018. Of course there is a LOOOONG way to go to say that with any confidence. Position changes are likely, etc. Just saying…
Lanknowsalso have to consider that Speight got hurt at the end of the year. Had he not we might be talking about a national championship team. (probably not but maybe…)
Lanknows“you have to consider Speight’s ceiling. Every player has a ceiling, so where can Speight get by this season that he didn’t get to by the end of last season?”
Yes, that is the big question. IMO it is very uncommon for a player to hit their ceiling in their first season as a starter. If you look at the track record of red-shirt sophomores who started in Michigan uniforms, it is pretty outstanding in terms of where they went from there.
Maybe Speight breaks the mold, but I doubt it.
I do agree the OL could hold Speight back. It is the key to the offense and perhaps the team. But I have zero worries about a guy who completed 60% of his passes and had a 19-8 TD/INT ratio as a sophomore holding the team back.
Meyer is a great offensive mind but his QB development isn’t something that makes me think we will see Barrett make major strides forward. If any of these guys have already hit their ceiling it is him. McSorley is a tougher argument since he’s in the same class as Speight, so there it boils down to Harbaugh vs Franklin. I know which way I lean.
LanknowsA C grade is average. So out of 14 teams, that would be the 7th and 8th best teams.
If you average out my positional grades (4 As, 2 B-/C+, 5 C/C-) it is probably a B-, which is probably around the 4th or 5th best team. Including coaching get us to 2 or 3.
If this group of players was getting coached by an average coaching staff (say Illinois) I think it would be a bit better than average (B-). Since they are getting coached by Don Brown, I think they’ll be near the top of the conference, but probably not as good as Ohio State.
This is far from scientific, but I think it’s logical.
LanknowsAs I said above, I’m far more bullish on the overall defense than the position grades would suggest because of excellent coaching. (Probably should have said this in the main post). The grades are for personnel.
I do expect that we can end up with one of the 3 best defenses in the conference. I don’t think we’ll be as good as last year (top 5 nationally). In the grading I’ve defined, that’s something like a B+.
A+ for coaching
A for DL (more important than back 7 IMO)
C- to C+ for the back 7
Overall B+ is reasonable.
LanknowsAgree on LB. I think Bush has a little more upside than you argue above, but he’s not going to hit his potential until after this year. Also agree about the freshman. It’s likely that one of them can jump Wrobelewski at some point.
LanknowsI agree DL rotation is important. I just don’t think we necessarily need to, for example, allocate 50% NT snaps to Dwumfour or Solomon. Mone can probably play closer to 70% of meaningful snaps and Hurst can cover the rest. The young guys might not be needed at all if Mone is healthy.
Michigan needs to find 3 interior DL it is comfortable rotating. They already have 2 in Mone and Hurst and, in the unlikely event all the freshman options falter (or the injury bug strikes) they can move Gary inside too.
That all said, I am VERY confident that between Dwumfour, Solomon, Hudson, Jeter, Marshall and others, Michigan will find another couple rotation players for the interior DL. Gary will be able to stay at SDE, Hurst will play most of his snaps at DT, and most QBs will be very very sad when they play Michigan.
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I’m far more worried about LB and Safety. If one of the starters goes down we are looking at a walk-on, position change, or throwing out a true freshman where experience tends to matter most on a defense.
We do have a strong recruiting class coming for LB, which I probably didn’t fully account for in my grade. Furbush should have some positional flexibility too. If you told me LB should be a B-, I wouldn’t argue.
But at safety there is almost no margin for error. If any of the 3 starters go down, Glasgow or JKP are probably coming in. Maybe Uche if you’re feeling optimistic. The recruits don’t profile to be immediate contributors.
LanknowsMy grades are unkind to the LB and DBs but I think objectively fair. I’m far more bullish on the overall defense than the position grades would suggest.
Brown, Mattison, and Zordich are the reason for that.
Brown’s been great everywhere he’s been and the only real question with him was how fast he could get his system in place. That was addressed last year. The only real question now is if an inexperienced secondary will be able to handle his risk-taking. Given the talent there, there is reason for optimism.
Zordich plays into that optimism. Lewis, Stribling, and Clark all made massive strides under Zordich’s guidance. There was some concern that Greg Jackson’s departure would hurt Michigan but it appears not to be so. (That guy was always overrated by fans and I think part of the blame lies with Mgoblog overstating his qualifications repeatedly). Zordich has been brilliant.
Mattison everyone knows about, but what an asset to the program. Even if you set aside his impeccable work on the DL, the man is just a tremendous resource for all the other coaches. Having a veteran DC on the staff as a position coach is a luxury.
So is knowing that Michigan will have an excellent DL year in and year out thanks to Mattison. When you see guys like Heininger, Glasgow and Godin play at such a high level it instills a great deal of confidence. Brady Hoke has gotten a lot of credit for DL development over the years but you really have to wonder if it wasn’t mostly about Mattison.
LanknowsI think there’s an argument that Speight is a B+ rather than an A-, but given he was one of the 3 best QBs in the conference last year as a sophomore and is likely to improve I don’t think it’s a very strong one.
The depth Michigan has at backup should nudge them ahead even if the Speight grade is broderline at B+/A-.
LanknowsThere is no question that McSorley and Barrett were better last year. Speight passing them would require superior development. This is where Harbaugh and Hamilton come into the equation.
LanknowsAgain, there is a very good reason Wheatley and Bunting haven’t caught a lot of passes. They’ve played well. I’m sure you can list teams with more returning catches but can you name 3 Big Ten teams that you genuinely expect to have better TE play than Michigan?
LanknowsCole is an A-grade player but I’m grading the unit as a whole.
Cole’s potential move to LT is bad news for him individually (he struggled there and is undersized) and a flashing danger sign for what’s going on at OL as a whole.
LanknowsWe have a proven D-1 starter as a worst-case senario. We have young blue chip recruits on top of that. In the Big Ten, whose got it better than us? OSU and….?
LanknowsExpectations are a subjective thing, but I tried to approach this logically. Anyone who backed up an elite player gets the benefit of the doubt unless they’ve given me reason not too. Especially if they played pretty well when given the chance. Those guys have both a legitimate excuse for not playing and could plausibly be excellent themselves.
Hurst, Gary, Winovich, Mone, Wheatley, and Evans were all rotation players last year. They were backups who did well, who would have played a lot more if they weren’t behind NFL-bound vets.
Bunting, Crawford, McDoom, Bush, Hill, Kinnell and Metellus looked good in more limited duty.
Those guys are going to be a cut above projected starters like Onwenu who sat behind unimpressive starters last year.
Bunting, Wheatley, and McKeon have all gotten hype the entire time they’ve been at Michigan. There is a damn good reason those guys haven’t seen a lot of snaps. They’re unproven for a reason and while that does add a degree of uncertainty, it doesn’t necessarily have to downgrade expectations.
I will be pretty disappointed if our TEs aren’t amonst the 2 or 3 best units in the conference, as they were last year.
LanknowsI don’t think it’s grade inflation to use the conference as the measurement stick. I can use Alabama as the yardstick instead but then you’ll get every single position at B and that’s not very informative.
LanknowsWe’ll find out of course. As I see it, it’s highly pessimistic (and a bit vain) to assume Harbaugh and company went with a guy they don’t think can be great. We know O’Korn has a high ceiling, we think Peters does, why would a staff renowned for QB development pick the noodle-armed no-talent to focus on?
Accuracy, decision-making, and pocket presence are far more important than arm-strength or straight-line speed. Speight flashed excellence in these areas last year.
Let’s put it another way — who was the last Michigan QB had a better year as a sophomore? Speight’s sophomore year was only a hair off Henne’s Junior year pinnacle. Navarre and Griese were never as good. Neither was Brady statistically. These were all NFL QBs and Speight’s sophomore year was better than any of theirs.
Speight’s sophomore year numbers are in line with the greats. Most of those guys made a significant leap in the junior years.
It’s possible that Speight diverges from the typical career arc and hits a plateau. It would be unusual if so. Given the coaches we have, I would say it’s highly unlikely that’s the case.
Keep in mind a year ago we didn’t know who was starting and were just beggining to hear rumblings about Speight taking charge and passing over a proven D1 starter. Now he’s a full-fledged leader.
I think he has a good chance of being the best QB in the conference next year and that’s something given how successful the guy down in Columbus has been. OL competancy is needed though.
LanknowsThe grading ‘curve’ is based on the Big Ten. Michigan’s competition is not “all of D-1A”. IMO it’s generous to even include the Rutgers and Purdues of the world.
Watson was an A+ (all american). All conference first team is an A (Barrett). Speight was a B or B+ last year (all conference 3rd team). Given he is a RS Soph and is coached by Harbaugh and will have a new QB coach in Hamilton, I’m assuming he’ll make a significant step forward. The OL could derail that.
TE is not ‘proven’ because Jake Butt was an excellent multiyear starter who took most of the snaps. TE is ‘proven’ because Wheatley split snaps at the 2nd TE position and Bunting stepped up when Butt got hurt in the Bowl game. You really can’t ask for much better when replacing a multi-year starter.
As for TE potential – I think Wheatly is getting overrated by some people but his potential is all american level. That may be true for some of our WR but none of them are 3rd year players who have gotten it done like Wheatley has.
Michigan may have the worst OL in the Big Ten next year, though I hope not.
LanknowsYeah – this is a great chance for the staff to prove themselves. Go down the line:
Is the Harbaugh/Hamilton/Drevno combo going to take Speight from solid to elite?
Is Harbaugh junior going to impact anything at RB or are we going to see fumbles and missed blocking assignments?
The talent goldmine at WR is there.
OL of course is the biggest one but not many coaching staffs have 2 guys as well qualified as Drevno and Frey. Much rides on their coaching ability. Your degree of faith in them, and what they can do with the pieces Michigan has may vary.
LanknowsI only gave A grades to potential all-conference players backed by solid depth. Speight, Hill, Bunting or Wheatley could all be there IMO.
I think there’s a remote chance that Evans or Crawford or even DPJ end up there too but I would put those chances below 20%.
LanknowsFrey’s first season at Michigan was 2008 – the worst OL in Michigan history (at least in terms of talent and experience). There’s only so much a new coach can do.
LanknowsQB: I think Speight has a decent shot at being the best QB in the Big Ten. The OL is the biggest factor in that, IMO.
RB: I’m bullish on Evans. I can’t remember such an impressive freshman season from any Michigan RB other than Mike Hart in the last 20 years. He also seems capable of making some of his own yards, beyond whatever the OL generates.
WR: As unproven as the group is, there is so much talent there that Michigan is all but guaranteed from having one of the 3 or 4 best WR groups in the conference. WR is a position where talent is more reliably translated to production than elsewhere like …
OL: I struggle to see how a group with 1 proven player across the entire unit can end up being an average Big Ten unit. I think a C grade is a best case scenario but I’m not going to put it as the expectation.
LanknowsI’m a big fan of Frey, but I don’t think the ingredients are there for success in 2017.
The situation isn’t as dire as it was in 2008 but, at OT, it might not be far off.
LanknowsEven though kids tend to change their minds and as parents all you can do is support.
Not saying he blasted his son, but it sounds like Dad might not love his son changing his mind here. Generalizations about “kids”. Limited ability to influence. “difficult process”
Lanknows75-55 good guys
Lanknows71-61 good guys
LanknowsWe certainly need help. Hopefully things work with LTT – I’m skeptical it’s the ideal fit for him given the baggage but he clearly likes UM.
LanknowsClassy tweet but kind of a call-out also.
As a west-coast resident I can’t really fault the kid, and if I was a big time football recruit I’d probably start my list at UCLA and Stanford and maybe not go far beyond that.
But it’s disappointing as a fan.
LanknowsBig picture point is the same one I’ve been bringing up for years. Striblings play has been positive but his write-ups and evaluations here have been negative. We’re talking about an all conference player whose TTB rank has never been even in the top 25 (Stribling’s ranked 26, 35, and 46 in the last 3 years – as a point of comparison, 4th string RB Ty Isaac has been 19, 33, and 34). His athleticism and playmaking have been criticized – yet he’s invited to the NFL combine. His performance by PFF is rated as high as almost anyone in the country – yet this post is insistent on focusing on the negative, even now.
Seems like playing favorites.
LanknowsI saw it on SB nation. Maybe it was a typo. That would explain why his official time was higher than one of his 2 runs.
LanknowsYou made this argument before. My rebuttal is the same: you’ve posted several dozens of times about Stribling since that post over 4 years ago. The majority of those have been negative and/or skeptical.
I’m not going to dig through all of them but I would hypothesize that there was a turning point after the 2013 PSU game.
Here are my comments from the 2014 countdown post:
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2014/07/2014-season-countdown-46-channing.html
I get this ranking to some extent, but your narrative assessment is too negative. I think Stribling is a future-star…Long-term, I see Peppers as a safety and Stribling and Lewis as lock-down all-conference corners. Irrational optimism? Perhaps, but when freshman CBs look as good as Stribling and Lewis looked, and when they push quality veterans for playing time – that portends very well for the future.
Next year’s countdown was even more negative. It focused on Stribling lack of playmaking ability and predicted his role would decrease:
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2015/07/2015-season-countdown-35-channing.html
You wrote:
I still think Stribling will be the fourth corner or lower, depending on how you view the position. The starters are likely to be Jourdan Lewis and Wayne Lyons, Peppers is slotted in as the nickel corner, and even redshirt freshman Brandon Watson might have worked his way past Stribling.
LanknowsIn the past you’ve argued that a running back’s main job is to run.
A cornerback’s main job is to cover.
LanknowsYou posted PFF’s analysis without saying anything critical about it. Now you say you don’t agree with their opinion. This is… selective.
LanknowsI couldn’t help but notice more Stribling-related negativity from Thunder on Mgoblog today:
“he’s not known for his agility, either. Stribling a) has decent height/length, b) is pretty grabby, and c) is an intelligent pass defender. He was also the beneficiary of having great coaching and a great pass rush up front. That’s what got him to where he is today. He has never been an elite athlete, and that goes all the way back to high school.”
Praise for teammates and coaches for his production, while Stribling only gets individual credit for his ‘intelligence’. If this was a white guy I’d know what to blame. In this case I’m baffled.
The NFL combine gives us some objective data on the subject and Stribling’s results are not anywhere near where these kind of negative assessments would lead you to believe. In fact, the area where Stribling struggled wasn’t athleticism at all – it was strength (Stribling was the worst overall performer in bench press and it wasn’t even close). His 40 time was unexceptional but OK (he posted a very strong 4.48 initially but his slower second 4.6 40 was listed as official) but he certainly wasn’t the slowest CB around.
While it’s true Stribling isn’t an elite athlete in comparison to other NFL-bound players – neither is Jourdan Lewis. By finishing at respectable levels amongst these prospects it is clear that Stribling is at home in their company. He certainly IS an elite athlete in comparison to other college players – the vast majority of which are not invited to the NFL combine at all.
Now Thunder’s certainly not the only one to say negative things about Stribling’s speed, and it’s certainly true that Stribling not an athletic ‘freak’ amongst this group. But Thunder’s been as vocal of a critic and skeptic of Stribling as I’ve seen anywhere over the last couple seasons. Typically when you have a such a good player at Michigan you focus so heavily on limitations. Speed, ball skills, playmaking, tackling – we’ve heard it all.
I would say the results tell a clear story and it is that athleticism was not something that hindered Stribling in his career at Michigan.
A mea culpa is warranted. Stribling (along with Lewis) is arguably the best CB Michigan has had in a decade but continues to get little to no respect. The reason is mysterious but I suspect it goes back to locking into an assesment from the PSU game his freshman year.
LanknowsStribling got an elite overall grade – better than Jourdan Lewis.
Stribling got an elite coverage grade – better than Lewis.
Stribling got an elite playmaking grade – this was a point of criticism heading into the season.
PFFs grades are indicative of what we saw the last 2 seasons – teams were as comfortable targeting Lewis as Stribling, to the point that Michigan lost a couple games (MSU 2015 & FSU 2016) by beating Lewis, not Stribling.
So…given the above…
Why is the comment here negative?
We all knew Stribling’s strength was coverage and weakness was tackling. What we didn’t know is how good Stribling was considered to be playing overall and how much of a playmaker he is (at least by PFFs estimate).
LanknowsWhat were the biggest challenges in the transition from Hoke to Harbaugh?
What are the biggest differences in skillset between LB positions (e.g., MIK, WIL, SAM)?
LanknowsI guess it’s a resume builder but hitching your wagon to Mike Debord is a questionable. Good luck to the charismatic young man.
LanknowsGreat info!
Yikes that is very bad. Interesting that PFF does not seem to factor the Run D very heavily in the overall grade.
As president of the Stribling fan club I can say it’s an honor for him to be included (and compared against) this elite company of CB prospects. Few thought this was possible in Fall 2015, when everyone was freaking about CB #2 (well, mostly everyone). Turned out we had both Clark and Stribling and both were pretty good.
Going to more recent concerns —
Remember when we were debating if Stribling was a playmaker or not?
