LanknowsI have zero expertise on the matter, but have read that the transition from Nussmeir’s zone blocking to Drevno’s (desired) power blocking was problematic and that Michigan relied more on zone than they wanted to in the interest of continuity – to help bring along the limited personnel they had on the OL.
I don’t think it’s beyond Frey to teach different technique, but I do think the blocking scheme is an important issue.
With so much turnover in personnel and positions Michigan is somewhat forced into a reboot no matter what scheme they move forward with. It still seems reasonable to think that Michigan is headed towards the Stanford model (power blocking) given that Harbaugh/Drevno/Hamilton will all be there. Since this isn’t an NFL team, I don’t think they can realistically be great at everything and need to establish an identity.
It should be noted that I think Rodriguez/Frey did run some power stuff out of the I-formation as a change of pace. It’s not like Frey’s going to be over his head.
LanknowsWhile Frey had nothing to do with recruiting Molk, he gets the bulk of the credit for developing him. Along with identifying and developing Omameh, Lewan, and Scofield that’s damn impressive.
I agree that the improvement from Huyge and Dorrestein was a notable accomplishment (both ended up solid starters who fended off younger/more talented players), but I wouldn’t give him much credit for Moosman and McAvoy. McAvoy was awful in 2008 (as was the whole OL) and benched by 2009. Moosman played in 2009 only because Molk got hurt. He was passable, but the loss of Molk was huge for that team.
LanknowsNo – but yes. Michigan is going to Stanford Michigan, but you should look at Frey as a guy whose background will be integrated into the Harbaugh/Drevno baseline. He’ll offer some new ideas and wrinkles maybe, maybe shift the balance of (extremely diverse) playcalling, but otherwise he’ll fall within the Harbaugh umbrella.
Good Shit Fisch will become Good shit Greg except a running play instead of a pass.
LanknowsImpressive yes, but more pertinent is probably his time at UM: “• From 2008-10, Frey coached the offensive line at the University of Michigan and helped rebuild its offense into a national power. The Wolverines racked up a school record and Big Ten-leading 6,353 offensive yards (488.7 per game) in 2010.”
The fact that he’s coached for Rodriguez and Wilson is huge in my book. Say what you want but those guys know a thing or two about putting points on the scoreboard. The potential insights into what Wilson might do at OSU probably won’t hurt either.
Make this happen. MAKE THE OL GREAT AGAIN
LanknowsWhoa. Seriously? I’m a huge fan of Frey’s body of work.
He could fit with Drev. Drev can focus on RB/FBs or they can do an inside/outside split on OL like what Hoke/Mattison did on DL.
It’s workable. Go get em!
LanknowsOh hey look Deveon Smith is tearing it up as soon as he steps out from behind the Michigan OL. We’re heard this one before.
Looks like we may get to ‘blame’ Fred Jackson for bringing another NFL RB to Michigan.
LanknowsComparing Harbaugh to Bump Elliot, if that’s what you’re doing, is pretty ridiculous. He essentially quit because he lost steam and wasn’t winning consistently. His final season was solid, but the previous decade plus was 1 rose bowl and then a bunch of mediocrity between losing seasons for what had been the best program in the country.
LanknowsNo. Bo did better than Elliot. Shaw has never matched Harbaugh’s final season.
Furthermore, Bo came from outside the program and reinvented the culture. Like Harbaugh.
Shaw is Moeller/Carr. Harbaugh is Bo.
LanknowsI accept that you can draw a distinction between coaching and building a program. Harbaugh’s done both.
Shaw hasn’t built a program, he inherited a successful one. Though, to be fair, he was on the staff with Harbaugh while it was built.
Fisher did not build FSU, he inherited a successful program from Bowden. Same goes for Carr. None of them built the program.
Sustaining success is impressive, but it is different than building it. The skillset is different. Lloyd Carr did a great job maintaining success but he was not a Bo / Harbaugh-level program-builder.
You can hold it against Harbaugh that he went from Stanford to the NFL and made a super bowl. You can draw a line in the sand at 6 years. I choose not to. Longevity and program building aren’t the same thing.
I think the 7 OL / 6 year issue is really the same thing in that you are turning what is arguably a solid rule of thumb into a firm cut-off line.
LanknowsIt’s not a lateral move to go from college to the NFL. Wheatley took a demotion to accept the Michigan job. He seemed to do so with some reluctance, and you can’t blame him given that fact.
But, as you said, if his goal is to be a head coach it would be a curious choice to go back to where he was in 2014. He’d have a much better shot of landing a MAC-level job by staying at the college level, developing recruiting ties, and learning under Harbaugh and company.
LanknowsIt’s very hard to assess recruiting impact. Michigan has done well in winning some recruiting battles for WRs but not so well at RB. Is Wheatley an impact recruiter? Open question.
It’s also hard to assess a RB coach’s impact on a RB. So much of running ability is instinctual, but some players develop patience. I’ve always believed the main thing RB coaches do is teach pass blocking and ball security. But that may be because Michigan had the same RB coach for a very long time and Fred Jackson excelled in that area.
If Wheatley moves on, I don’t think it’s a big hit. If they can get Greg Roman to replace him (assistant head coach/run game coordinator) with Drevno promoted to straight OC title that would be a big improvement in overall coaching chops in the staff. If they get someone else with a recruiting focus it could be an injection of fresh energy and ideas. You can trust Harbaugh to make a good hire.
LanknowsHarbaugh built the foundation at Stanford. He recruited Andrew Luck. He hired David Shaw. In 4 years he took them from 1-11 to 12-1. The turning point was Harbaugh.
You seem to be arguing Harbaugh built it and Shaw finished it? Yet Shaw has never had as good of a season as Harbaugh’s last (12-1 Orange Bowl). He HAS had sustained success — thanks largely to what Harbaugh built. Shaw’s the one who needs to prove he can build something.
You can knock Harbaugh for not staying anywhere for a long time, but that’s a different argument.
As for the OL numbers – it’s the same thing i’ve been saying every year. We need to take more and I agree with you that they didn’t take enough in 2015 and 16. BUT – if they take 6 or 7 in this class, AND if the young guys look like they will pan out – I don’t agree they have to take 7 again next year. IF the attrition rate you mention happens, then I will agree with you. Lose 3 guys and they should bump up the 2018 OL class from 4 to 7. 4 is the smallest I’d go and I would expect to land at 5 for now.
You have 7 guys on the current roster who could be back in 2018 + 7 2017 recrutis +7 2018 recruits, you are at 21 OL. That’s going to put you seriously behind at other positions. A lot of people think you need around 15-16. I think it should be closer to 18-20, but going over 20 is not optimal. You go there only if you are having serious problems. OL is important but you can’t devote a quarter of your scholarships too it without shooting yourself in the foot. If things get that bad you probably have to look at replacing Drevno with somebody who can produce players more effectively and efficiently.
LanknowsHow did he not build SD and Stanford? Look where were those programs were at before he arrived.
Lost me here IJ.
LanknowsStrong argument. But if attrition is lower than 3 you can dial it back. If Newsome comes through healthy (or possibly red-shirts), you dial it back. If Ulizio or Spanelis step up to start capably in 2017 – you can dial it back. If Filiaga looks really good but they can afford to red-shirt him – you can dial it back.
We need numbers right now, but if Harbaugh can get these young guys looking like multi-year starters the situation can be righted quickly.
So yeah, I would start with 7 as the target because the situation is so bad right now, but I would also hope they don’t have to devote something like a third of the next class to the OL.
Lanknows15 is the bare minimum IMO. It’s not just numbers, because you need to evaluate the guys who are just depth and/or won’t be ready to play at a starting level until they are 4th or 5th years. This is a lot of guys, probably the majority. You probably don’t know what you have until year 2, and then you have to account for the guys who just don’t have it also. You’ll always have at least 2 or 3 of those, who you’ll hold onto just for depth until their 4th year or spend a year or two encouraging to transfer. The scholarships still get spent.
Again, I will bring up Rodriguez who by 2010 knew he had 4 starter-caliber players as freshman or sophomores that he could count on for the next several years (Schofield, Lewan, Omameh, Molk). That situation lets you lower the number down to 15 or so. More uncertainty should mean more numbers.
LanknowsThey need to sign 5 or more every year until they are confident they can field a strong starting unit for the next 2+ years. I would hope that between the 2015 and 2016 classes they end up with 5 they fell confident in that they don’t need to take 7 again next year. But they might have to.
LanknowsI don’t intend to be rude, but that is a terrible rule of thumb. You have to take context into account.
People killed Rodriguez for taking a small OL class but he had the OL set for the next few years AND had proven that he could develop OL recruits into starters very quickly and at a high level of success. Meanwhile the defense was completely falling apart and had to be attacked with numbers (the same way the OL situation has to be attacked with numbers now).
You have to look at your roster needs.
But yes, in the vast majority of situations you do not want to take fewer than 3 OL in a class.
LanknowsI don’t think you have to take 5 a year every year. If you have a red-shirt freshman who is standing out and ready to start for 4 more years, you can back off a bit. If you have 3 guys like that you can back off a lot.
There are some economies of scale at OL because of positional versatility and skill overlap, but there are limitations to this.
Michigan is in the other side of the situation where you have proven young starters who you can comfortably pencil in to the lineup for the next 4 years. Instead they are grasping at straws and looking for immediate help from high school players.
I think they are foolish to take any less than 7 OL in this class. It looks like they will take 6 (hopefully) nominal OL and then there are a couple DL who could end up there too. I like the current approach. But I would have no problem if they took even more.
LanknowsThe Gospel of the Trenches must be heard and spread across the lands. Thank you INT John.
The OL undid Hoke, has handicapped Harbaugh, and was largely responsible for the 3-9 season that started Rodriguez off on the wrong foot with so many.
There is no answer but to attack the position with numbers. Nothing against Linsey – I think Michigan really wants to add one more WR be it Collins, Martin or someone else – but I agree that the OL should be the focus.
And way to back up the point with some data!
LanknowsMichigan should pursue both, IMO, if the off-field issues are manageable.
LanknowsInteresting development on this front.
Akron is allowing 5 schools to contact LTT, including Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arkansas. Presumably he selected the 5.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/logan-tully-tillman-grad-transfer
Jake Fruhmorgen is another transferring OT and according to reports he is considering Michigan and Florida. He started on last year’s Clemson team at RT as a true freshman and was starting this year until he got hurt. Kid can play but circumstances around his departure for “personal reasons” are mysterious. Dabo has nice things to say about him FWIW.
Reports: OL Jake Fruhmorgen transferring from Clemson
Off-field issues can’t be ignored in either case, but from a purely football perspective both would be valued additions. Fruhmorgen would have to sit a year but the 2018 OL doesn’t have any players with experience locked in.
LanknowsPretty much the only chance of Michigan having a “standout” at OT is moving Cole or Bredeson there, and even those moves would be unlikely to produce an all conference caliber player.
Capable would suffice.
The question is if whoever we can get (LTT or someone else) is better than whatever JBB and Ulizio have to offer.
LanknowsProbably a huge PR risk if his victim is still a student or even around campus. One statement from her and this would get ugly fast.
Seems highly highly unlikely he would return, but the fact that he graduated from Michigan and played at Akron is helpful.
Would be unprecedented. Don’t get your hopes up.
LanknowsYikes. That’s a bit scary now that you mention it.
LanknowsIt’s not odd anymore. Commitments are more like ‘reservations’ these days.
LanknowsLike Thunder said, there is plenty of reason to think he is or did consider Michigan since committing. Doesn’t mean he’s coming to UM but it’s not a simple as you outlined.
LanknowsI don’t doubt that. I think Webb’s assertion today that things were not over with Aubrey Solomon is a great example of that. The kid directly said he didn’t like Michigan football and semi-publicly blasted them. He’s not coming to Michigan. But after the AA game is done and the EEs are all on campus Michigan recruiting is going to have very few storylines between now and signing day. So Webb’s looking ahead and keeping the story hot.
But, the Najee Harris uncertainty is, I think, authentic from Sam Webb and he doesn’t seem to be entirely alone. Far from it. Yes most of these guys are seeking clicks, but they also have a reputation to uphold. There is so much content out these days that you can’t just blow smoke and expect people to subscribe and tune in.
LanknowsThis is great because OL, WR, DL, and DB are all positions where Michigan will have opportunities for freshman to make an impact.
The way I look at is is you need to have 7-8 DBs with the top 6 being most critical. In order of likelihood of being in that rotation I see:
1. Kinnel
2. Clark (assuming he’s back)
3. Hudson
4. Mettelus (assuming he isn’t a fulltime LB)
5. Hill
6. Watson
That leaves 1 or 2 more spots for returning players (Long, Washington) and freshman. As Thomas sounds like the most promising freshman for the moment, he’ll get a legit shot. He may not start right away but he’ll probably push for a role. EE should help a lot.
Looking at WR you really only need meaningful snaps from 4. In order of liklihood:
1. Perry (if he is back)
2. Crawford
3. McDoom
4. Harris
There’s only 2 other returning players (Johnson and Ways) and it’s likely there is more rotation than the last two years. So DPJ and Black will get a legit shot (and Hawkins too, though he seems further down the pecking order for now). At this point I’m doubtful Collins ends up in the class.
OL has been discussed a lot lately but my current top 6 is:
1. Cole
2. Bredeson
3. Onwenu
4. Newsome (if healthy)
5. Bushel-Beatty
6. Kugler
Again, for the freshman there is a very real opportunity. None of the other returning players have seen snaps (Ulizio, Runyan, Spanellis). Ruiz and (crossing my fingers) Filigia are getting all the attention and sound as ready to play as they can be (though so did Kalis and Kugler).
DL has some opportunity too, though it’ll be a little more competitive there. You need a rotation of 7-8.
1. Gary
2. Hurst
3. Mone
4. Winovich
5. R.Johnson
6. L.Marshall
7. Dwumfour
Obviously after the starters it’s wide open but there are a ton of options (Kemp, S.Johnson, Jones) and a whole lotta freshman. It’s clear that interior NT/DT is the biggest need to spell Mone. Jeter coming in early will give him a leg up on other options like Hudson & DIB.
Given the above I do wonder why Slaton isn’t giving more consideration to joining Hebert at Michigan. He has a clear opportunity at either position. I don’t expect either at this point, but both are very much needed.
——————
About the only EE who seems to have little chance of breaking into the rotation is Mason.
Don’t expect too many red-shirts beyond the OL.
LanknowsLooks like you need an editor because you forgot to include Najee Harris.
LanknowsIf you follow recruiting long enough you learn skepticism is wise. Still, there are a handful rational voices who have earned some trust. When Sam Webb made his case for why he thinks Harris was coming to Michigan that ‘moved the needle’ for me.
This report should be taken with a grain of salt like the others. We’ll find out sometime in the next week, which is just fine.
LanknowsLOL. Sometimes it’s nice to be a RB-truther. As I said before, Wilson (and now Filiaga) are a bigger deal to me, and I don’t think Harris was a savior. But… it sure would have been nice.
As for “coming home to get stuff” – I think that was probably a rumor based on speculation and anyway, like you said, you can have stuff shipped and get the rest later.
One does wonder why he is keeping things open with Michigan if his intent is to go to the school he is committed to already. Personal amusement isn’t out of the question but most likely he did have some consideration after his commitment and just didn’t want to talk to media.
Regardless, good luck to him. You really can’t fault any RB for picking Alabama, or any recruit for not wanting to play the game.
Also –
You mean Oakland not Oaklahoma.
LanknowsO’Korn supposed to be back too. Both surprising to me, if it turns out that way. We as fans don’t have all the off-field information though, and these kids may have very good non-football reasons for returning. On field it seems curious though.
I imagine Evans will be rotated with somebody, be it Harris, Higdon, or Isaac because you don’t usually want a 200-210 pound guy running it 30 times a game.
LanknowsMany will disagree, but I hate to see kids on medical scholarship end up playing elsewhere. Not a good look. But this — 2 years eligibility remaining and UM degree in hand — is a best case scenario were things may have worked out well for everyone involved.
LanknowsHave to admit i’m very excited. I’ve commented many times that I think RBs are overrated but I’ve always qualified it that having a true difference-maker is… well, different. Harris is unlikely to be a Cook/Fournette level back but — at least there is a chance.
I wonder if the Fisch situation affects any of this. Of course Alabama’s OC is changing too and I imagine those guys have their attentions divided a little bit at the moment.
The depth chart is the big thing in Michigan’s favor here. Alabama has a loaded backfield where Harris will have to wait his turn. Michigan has Evans whose optimal role is probably in a timeshare and then a couple unexceptional options in Higdon and Isaac (who may not be back anyway).
LanknowsI wonder if Thunder or anyone else has a guess about which incoming freshman is most likely to contribute at DT/NT and if any of them seem likely to be able to beat out Dwumfour. Michigan clearly needs at least one other (3rd) interior DL to emerge, even if they use Gary inside more often.
LanknowsWith visits to USC and Utah left and Tuioti gone from UM — I am not getting my hopes up.
LanknowsYikes. Tufele and Filiaga are the two most important recruits on the board IMO. Solomon could perhaps make up for not landing Tufele but we don’t have anyone on the board who is nearly as well regarded and potentially ready to play as Filiaga.
Big blow for recruiting, but without a vacancy on the staff they can’t promote Tuioti. Hopefully they’ve made enough of an impression on Tufele and Filiaga that it’s not a deal-breaker.
LanknowsLB is going to drop off IMO. You don’t lose Peppers and senior like Gedeon and replace them with freshman and sophomores and not have a dropoff. I like our talent but it’s a year or two away from being a strong as this years group. Not that they were perfect (with some coverage issues) but McCray is going to go from being the weakest link to the biggest strength.
The secondary is a big concern, obviously. After OL, the biggest on the team.
LanknowsAgree on Mone vs Glasgow. I was trying to be generous and acknowledge that Mone might have more talent and definitely has more size. His upside is higher but Glasgow was dang good. I do think he got overranked by some who called him an all american caliber player – he wasn’t even the best in the conference. (Same goes for Butt and Lewis — some guys are just really really good at a time when someone else who is great comes along.)
LanknowsI like the formatting options in the forum. Would be nice to have in the blog comments too, if you can get to it in the offseason (I know options are limited and this stuff ain’t free… just saying.)
LanknowsDoesn’t mean anything much necessarily but I’m encouraged by this group. You have the 3 local big ten schools and the 2 Florida schools. The exclusion of Alabama or more high-powered passing offenses like TAMU or Baylor is good news. That the majority are local schools is encouraging.
The rumblings are positive here. The lack of production from the OSU and MSU passing games plus M’s on-field success is trending positive thusfar. Darboh/Chesson/Butt all leaving makes for an excellent opportunity and none of these schools have passers as impressive as McCaffrey/Peters in the pipeline (though playing with Francois must be tempting).
I’m feeling optimistic to the point that DPJ picking anywhere else would be a major bummer and recruiting failure on the part of the M-staff.
LanknowsOf course.
Just remember that I called Freddy Canteen at #20 last year, so mine is probably the 100% correct version again.
LanknowsAgree 100%. Spring stuff tends to get inflated because there’s not much else going on. Meanwhile the fall info comes in waves and even some pretty significant stuff that (if it came in spring) we’d discuss for months gets little notice.
For all the talk about ‘submarine’, the Fall camp is when the most interesting information comes from ‘insiders’. Later in the season is when they clam up and even throw out some BS (like Ty Isaac being the lead back going into OSU – remember that one?).
LanknowsIf some of the freshman getting hype are legit I would tweak these a bit.
If Bredenson is a Cole-level freshman, you can bump Magnuson a couple spots and perhaps Newsome down to just missed range (20-25).
If McDoom is an instant impact big play guy, I think Darboh drops 5-10 spot. Not sure he affects Chesson.
LanknowsI admit this is probably high/optimistic for Stribling. I’m projecting growth (see spring hype) and think he’s superior in coverage to Clark.
Clark was the toughest guy to leave out of the top 25.
LanknowsI would guess the controversial thing here is putting Gary outside the top 20. I realize he’s a special talent, an impact player, and a likely starter. But if he goes down Michigan is giving his snaps to Wormley, Hurst, Godin, or Charlton. Will cost some playmaking but not much dropoff here. Hard to put a guy too high when that’s the case.
I rank the DLmen in order of importance like this:
1. Wormley – experience, versatility, and overall excellence
2. Glasgow – NT has fewer options than other DL positions
3. Charlton – WDE success is critical and his backups are unproven
4. Mone – NT
5. Gary
6. Hurst
7. Godin –
8. Winovich
9. Marshall
LanknowsThis year’s highlight reel will be much longer. #heisman
LanknowsThe Leach system is very easy to learn and execute for OLmen. Like Rodriguez, he keeps things simple for his linemen and values mobility over strength. That should help LTT play quickly.
LanknowsInteresting landing spot. Very different from AA/Michigan.
LanknowsOne of the more surprising disappointments I can remember in a while for Michigan greats playing at the next level. I was sure Gallon would carve out a role as a reliable slot WR.
I think his unorthodox game (he’s not the fast for a little slot guy, his skills are more outside WR than traditional slot) may have worked against him.
