ragingbullgood stuff, appreciated. hows mone look? hopefully he put in the work and entered camp in great shape as hes got injury history (though some being fluke type injuries that could happen to anyone) and serious S&C work and great technique are the best ways to avoid injury (when possible) and remain on the field…they really need consistent play from mone given the depth chart so hopefully hes ready to rock.
they know what theyre getting with hurst, winovich, mccray, kinnel, cole, bredeson, etc, and while there are numerous spots where the wrong injury to the wrong player could prove highly problematic (ie hurst, cole, etc), many of those dudes have shown they can remain on the field, at least thru usual bumps and injuries. so mone is key guy to watch, in my opinion
ragingbullagreed. and yes mone differs from those 2 in that hes done it in the past, hes played and looked solid with some splash plays here and there. he just has not done it consistently, injured or not. hopefully he can do both this year…stay relatively healthy and play mostly consistent ball.
i agree mattison should be able to field competent reserves given the talent on hand…though id certainly feel better about it if he had another 1-2 DL that hed already put thru the paces for at least a year (maybe from those 14 and 15 classes) rather than relying on several frosh to fill out the top 7-9 DL which looks like will be the case.
furbush getting a look at DE makes sense. he likely struggles to see the field at LB (unless injuries hit) with the way they prob want to play (ie viper). if the staff really likes him, which they apparently do, it makes sense to try to find situations to get furbush on the field…maybe its rotating at WDE behind winovich and others or maybe theyre trying him in hybrid looks in certain sets where hes standing up / hand down and able to drop or rush. who knows. but the staff obviously has the creativity so if they have the desire to find a role for furbush, they likely will, even if its a small one
ragingbullappreciate the info. hopefully dwumfour remains healthy and retains upward trajectory…they need him…and not just as a body to rotate in but a dude they can rely on to consistently do his job and make a few plays when possible.
not surprising you list solomon as “down”…hes a talented kid but still a true frosh who just arrived. he was highly rated and a huge signing for this staff but its not like he was on garys level (or lawrence at clemson, etc) so most should prob temper expectations…while he could and should eventually contribute this year, itll most likely be out of necessity due to depth chart so i wouldnt expect a ton. and even then it may be more of situational role.
heres to solomon and hudson and jeter and the rest taking to tolbert and crew and busting it this summer while soaking up as much as possible from hurst and the older cats…bc they need a ton of technique work in addition to adding functional strength and quickness…and this team needs a few of those dudes to grow up quick and be comfortable enough to rotate in without losing their heads
(this is where i wont mention losing guys like roseboro to nc st or not getting much of anything from marshall, johnson, jones, etc…good news is the less than stellar 2014 class and weak 2015 transition class likely wont be felt much beyond this year as large, talented 16 and 17 classes get up and running…they have the talent to make a nice bowl again this year but another handful of contributors from 14 and 15 certainly wouldnt hurt and would increase the margin error).
up or down, they obviously also need mone to contribute and remain healthy. any details re the “down” for mone? i realize theyre only doing offseason conditioning and whatnot so its easy enough to fluctuate at this point. and while mone has shown flashes in the past and been hyped for several seasons now, we havent seen him remain healthy or consistently impact long stretches of key games. i doubt mone will ever be the rock steady player glasgow proved to be, he just hasnt shown the consistent technique even when healthy…but if he can consistently play low and smart and do his job often enough (with a few splash plays here or there), thatd be huge. hell take incorrect steps, get trapped or play the wrong shoulder and the like more often than glasgow and other departing senior DL but mones still a massive, talented kid theyre likely really counting on.
turn on tape from last year and youll see multiple DL winning matchups and getting off blocks to impact plays on majority of snaps, and usually within the scheme. winovich or hurst, etc occasionally got a little lax with their responsibilities while trying to get after it but for the most part that D was rock solid. sure, they had a lot of future pros and a really sound secondary but they consistently made it happen up front, playing their keys and shutting down the run on the way to the passer.
i expect hurst, gary and winovich to do the same this year…can dwumfour, kemp, mone and a few others eventually get close to that point? i think kemp could be really good, especially in a reserve role at anchor, and all indications point to a dwumfour being a steady presence if hes healthy. they really did have close to 2 starting DLs last year with those 7-9 guys and while i wouldnt expect to see that again any time soon, theyre still talented and should be ok up front. hopefully they remain healthy as a group and mattison and brown can coach up a few guys to be serviceable bc that unit could be pretty darn good…and if so, it only helps a talented but inexperienced secondary.
cant wait to see how it all plays out though! competition will be fierce
ragingbulli figured theyd get medical redshirts for guys like long, eubanks, etc but looks like theyre listed as sophs. if thats the official roster, i guess thats the way harbaugh wants it. or maybe those guys will be considered 2016 redshirts down the line when theyre entering 4th or 5th year and its necessary to do so. is it a situation where they dont address medical redshirts until its absolutely necessary?
ragingbulldudes a beast and a talented prospect id love to see at michigan. im sure don brown feels the same way, wrights motor and potential versatility would fit great on mattisons DL
ragingbullgiven the depth and talent across the 2 large 16-17 classes, it can be easy to gloss over or underrate some promising prospects when analyzing or discussing the roster and incoming class.
for example, robbins could have a significant impact on this falls team and the team next 4 years. i have no idea how talented he is but it sounds like many are expecting him to immediately compete for starting punting gig. i realize hes rated #1 and assume hes got a powerful leg but can he kick under pressure, does he get sufficient hang time, will he help his coverage team keep returners in check, can he directionally kick, can he work the ball at will to all areas of the field, does he have touch to pin it inside the 20? basically, can the kid consistently execute most punts required to truly impact a big time college game? and do so as a frosh?
bc if so, if he can match allen and oneill during his frosh year, hell be a huge asset. bomb some 50-60 yarders to flip the field, consistently pin teams inside the 20 to allow what should be a solid D to put in work, etc – i dont think any current punters can consistently do those things (at least based on what ive heard and little ive seen) so if robbins can do that, itll significantly impact ST and really help the O and D and this team get wins.
too many people seem to undervalue special teams and the impact it can have (i loved watching peppers on D but he was insanely good in terms of judgement and fielding of kicks and saving every single yard possible for his squad – very impressive and very underrated). many notice game winning kicks or muffed punts or whatever but consistently flipping the field when possible, winning field position, limiting returns, consistently pinning teams deep in their own territory, etc – its all key and it all wins games.
so hopefully robbins is not just the #1 rated punter but hes able to immediately step in and make an impact. and if so he could be the most underrated recruit in this massive, deep talented class of 30. im psyched about st juste, woods, honingford, paye, jeter, mason, etc – i think theyre all underrated and all should eventually earn roles, though to varying degrees of course (and some sooner than later) – but robbins could be the most signifcant of the underrated prospects if hes really that good. a 4 year starter they can truly rely on? im all for it.
sorry, long rambling post to make sort of basic point
ragingbulldo they have the frosh safeties only focusing on 1 spot for now?
im sure they envision woods and kelly-powell in specific roles and recruited them accordingly but brown also likes the ability to flip his safeties (help offset motions, etc) and preaches he wants guys learning multiple positions. but its still a hard adjustment for frosh safeties and much easier to first direct focus and reps and nail down 1 spot.
given the depth chart and need for safety help this fall, just curious if theyre both repping rover and free or only 1 spot at this point
ragingbullnot a ton of variety in the first 10-15 throws but the kid clearly throws a catchable ball
ragingbulldidnt see harbaughs comments but zordich made similar remarks after the spring game in fairly candid, interesting interview (though i usually enjoy his media stuff – z shoots from the hip, hes just about as regular a dude as youll find, especially for ex pro athlete).
z said the DBs were making daily strides but had long way to go – and he went in depth re several of the DBs, progress, expectations, what theyre looking for, etc (and theres plenty of substance). if anyones interested and hasnt heard it he offers some informative replies. hes prob 2nd behind don brown in terms of best interviews (jay may be 3rd). both great dudes and great coaches. as i said when they hired z (and again when many said theyd rather zordich leave than jackson), harbaugh got a good one.
z said long and hill are gifted but need to find consistentcy and also learn how to play when uncomfortable. said both have been slightly dinged up. some reporter followed up asked him to clarify and z said by uncomfortable he meant learning how to and understaning the need to play hurt – its a tough, physical game and a long season, gotta tighten the straps at times and get the job done.
hopefully its just those dudes being cautious and still getting used to the grind of the college and whats expected of them rather than a reflection of toughness or whatever – bc both have the talent to make an impact, they just need the reps and then need to stay on the field. and hes right, its key to know how to play when slightly uncomfortable as its a tough game, a long season and after first few weeks everyone has some bump or bruise or tweak they could prob get away with icing or resting if they really wanted to. its difficult to make an impact from the sideline. and no one wants to be known as the guy always found in the non-contact jersey or working with trainers on the side when everyones grinding out sprints or popping the pads.
im not knocking anyone one way or the other, certainly not saying guys need to toughen up bc im not there, i dont know – but if several coaches are saying theyre disappointed someone cant or didnt go or whatever then it may be an issue to watch going forward. the guys mentioned are seemingly great kids and tough athletes so im sure theyll figure out what it takes, work their tails off this summer and make it happen during camp
ragingbullwith you on james graham [or a comparable talent if they can find any], looks like a great athlete. never hurts to have a versatile athlete developing at QB yet capable of competing for snaps in other areas
ragingbullgood coaching and player development must occur over the course of every season – so youre right but its not just this year due to inexperience, its every single year. recruit your guys, then coach em up – player development is the lifeblood. recruiting all the 4 star talent in the world doesnt mean much if those players fail to grow and develop (or the coaches fail to properly deploy talent or scheme to their strengths).
youre right though, this staff has the opportunity to show everyone how they take care of business this fall. they have a big job to do and while i think theyll do ok, hopefully enough players take to it and develop fastest enough to fill the roles necessary to help the squad back to new years 6 bowl
ragingbulltuley-tillman returning would certainly be interesting if nothing else. if he ended up enrolling and joining the squad hed really help add depth. he wouldnt be an all conference type (unless something crazy happened) but hed add another experienced body to OT competition which they obviously need. and i think hes more talented than bushel-beatty and some of the other options (at least as of now hes likely more talented but who knows). thatd be a weird yet potentially mutually beneficial arrangement, im interested to see what occurs
ragingbullwhat advice would / will he offer his brother? bc its a somewhat unique situation – plenty of bros play together but not always the same position and whatnot.
specifically what would he do differently, how would he approach the day to day and year to year grind, what would he recommond his bro prioritize, how would he advise his bro re independent study, time management, taking care of his business yet still having some fun, etc – all those type questions from the perspective of what hed do differently now that hes matriculated or what he wishes he could change or go back and handle again via different mentality, methods, etc. basically how will he advise his bro tackle the challenge of playing LB for this staff and studying at um, and what if anything would he recommend altering from the path big bro took
ragingbulli really enjoyed both narcos and sherlock if you havent seen those.
im currently trying to get into bloodline (which is another of the netflix originals) after others recently recommended – no opinion yet as i only watched the pilot / first episode but it seems interesting and has some talented actors (including coach eric taylor) but well see if it draws me in
ragingbullyep the difference bw 8 and 10 wins is huge.
and i wouldnt argue that m will be far better off in 2018 vs 2017 (in terms of final record, i presume) but i would argue that m will likely have a deeper, more experienced and more talented overall squad in 2018 vs this fall 2017.
m could surprise this fall though, theyve got a decent group of experienced players, a great staff and a ton of young talent the staff will forge in the fire – hopefully they remain healthy, embrace their identity and find a dozen young players to roll in and step up – if so, i wouldnt put a big ten title run past them. odds are the 2018 squad will be deeper with more experience and more experienced talent but that doesnt mean theyll automatically run it or exceed 2017 results.
gonna be real interesting to watch, especially with like 60 scholarship players bw 2016-17 classes
ragingbullsome interesting points, all around. and an interesting topic.
just figured id copy / paste the following from an above post as its a significant point:
“The difference I think with Alabama and OSU is that they have a waiting list of local 4-star kids who will come the minute an offer is on the table. Michigan’s backyard isn’t quite as talented and is divided with MSU/ND. So our Plan B kids are 3-stars from the north.”
theres plenty of reasons for # of offers, timing of offers, etc, and recruiting, like the game in general, is always changing. its almost too much to try to break down. but the above quote covers a decent portion of the issue. michigan is a major public u and a blue blood program with proud, successful tradition but theyre also not the only game in town as obviously they share the state with msu and have nd and osu right down the road. michigan had it made back in the day when detroit was booming, they were 1 of few programs with consistent national tv presence, etc but the game has changed and in combo with demographic shifts and whatnot, theyve had to adjust their blueprint.
virtually every other top program either resides in a talent rich home state, in close proximity to talent rich areas or operates as the sole power 5 program in state – michigan has to fight uphill in many regards.
not exactly complete argument or stance here, just pointing out a few factors and highlighting m’s unique position of attempting to secure talent on the level of osu, bama, fsu, lsu, usc, uga, etc without crazy amount of consistent homegrown talent in backyard. id be surprised if they ever really dipped back below that top 1/4 or whatever of teams highest # of offers. well see now that harbaugh has been here several years and isnt playing catchup with 2019 kids and beyond like he was with 2016 or 2017 or whatever – maybe the # offers remain fairly constant, maybe not and maybe they decrease a bit. but theyll still likely remain in that top tier of power 5s in terms of offers simply bc they must do so in order to ensure they touch in state, midwest, east coast, cali, southeast, etc – they currently need to offer more kids than lsu for example in order to have shot at securing the same quantity of elite prospects (at least most years – though some years it might be like when hoke was able to sign like 20 4 stars from within 500 miles or whatever)
ragingbullsort of looks like desmond morgan
ragingbullagreed, up-downs / hit-its = the worst. i hated those at every level. we usually did them in sets of anywhere from 10-50 so 100-200 per day sounds about right.
as much as i hated them, i respected up-downs as a tried and true method of conditioning. they helped improve, strengthen, test and measure ones quickness, flexibility, explosion, desire, work ethic, cardio, strength, etc (all to varying degrees of course) – and in terms of putting out and suffering together as a unit, position group or team, i cant think of many better methods.
as i grew and starting lifting and doing all manner of S&C, i came to despise other exercises for different reasons – i really hated power cleans in college and im sure they contributed to my current joint problems as much as any other activity. cleans and squats and the like are more lifting-oriented but in terms of conditioning work, its tough to top up-downs.
i actually didnt mind resistance running (chutes, bands, sleds, etc) as much as most of my teammates, nor did i dislike the standard hill running / incline conditioning (usually until vomiting) as much as most. but up-downs / hit-its, forget about it! theyre the worst.
its only been like 10 years but i still vividly recall our S&C coaches blowing their damn whistles and demanding what seemed like endless up-downs (the process only lengthened by our mouthier teammates bitching).
so yeah, up-downs are a classic and theyre certainly a great way to condition and test while also bonding a unit, at any level – but they suck
